Combines changes for 08 model agco combines

[tbran]

the 08's havn't been introduced, buttt since the last 07's are being called 08's, rumor has it , Dan's 'Deep Throat' feeder edition is coming to a field near yours!............ stay tuned for more news at 11. A few running changes for odds and ends things.

 

[NDDan]

I have not seen the formal introduction on '08s but hears a link to feeder floor. They didn't mention it as high capacity feeder but did mention it being deepened. http:__www.agcoiron.com_default.cfmIJPID=1.23.3.2 I know seperator clutch will now have larger bearings for I ordered one and they are much larger. This should prevent bearings from growling when seperator is off earlier than we would like. Also cages will be punched for steep pitch thresher helicals. I find some functions not operating on AGCO's Gleaner web site. I don't know if they are working on things or what. I found the literature on our rack which is quite good I thought but could not find duplicates on website. I was suprised to find the little tid bit on tilted feeder floor. I believe or hope it is all coming with into of '08s.

 

[slims]

We had an 08 running this fall, it does have the floor in it. Have not had time to look at other things on it yet but I did see that the floor is different. Brian in Illinois

 

[NDDan]

How did the '08 doIJ You sounded a little put out last fall when a guy overdrove capacity of bin fill system on his older machine that had it's floor tilted! I imagine it was time for some renewing on that machine anyway!! I guy should note that Gleaner has beefed up feeder big time in recent years including: 2" feeder shafts, 1_4" thick feed floors, four strand 557 feed chains, and much more the further back in years you go. Now you compound all this with streamlined feeder, solid rear feed shaft, 7" rear feed drum, 20% increase in chain speed and it's no wonder the feeder no longer has trouble feeding an ever increasingly hungry cylinder. I note this above especially because of increasing calls from guys that are thinking about moving away from Gleaner or have moved and want back. In a call a couple days ago the guy went on and on about how many times Gleaner came up when tring to get their currant machines to equal their old Gleaners. I asked him what was main reason he switched from Gleaner and he said the feeder was to small. I quickly reported to him that our feeder is not much narrower than many others and it is now deepened and streamlined. Then I expanded on a few more things beyond the feeder!! My bet is he will be back in the silver ASAP. Have a great and safe holiday season!!!

 

[magnum_man]

Are they even making 08'sIJ They are beating a dead horse. After 15 years they are finally getting around to trying to fix the separator clutch bearing problem. They will have to totally revamp the R series current production machine with some major changes (I am not talking Axial Flow) to get any market share back. GlEANER needs to have a combine with the WOW effect to regain any market share. If they had such a combine that was reliable and RandD it like it should be, it the would have dealers chomping at the bit to sell them and that would fix the dealer problem. lets see some of what it would take.. 1. Put some real belts on the RH feeder house drive. I want some belts that will run 2000 hours with out being changed. And no floor mod will do the trick to lessen torque on betls. They do need a deeper and streamlined feederhouse but it has to have some good belts on it. Put some double v belts on there that do not break even if the operator puts the feeder in reverse before it has stopped going forward or make the switch idiot proof so this does not happen. 2. Fix the bearing problems with the feeder house jack shaft pivot. And get that hydraulic swivel out of there so when you take it apart you do not break it off. 3. Isomount the cab better and make it quieter. Raise the cab and make the feeder house longer to get the cab out of the dust from the header. Put an Ag leader yield monitor in it. The current Field Star is a joke for mapping. 4. put the class 8 unloader or a turrent auger on it that is not glued on the side. Narrow the machine some by putting the unloader auger above the rotor. By doing this you could have the chopper 50% wider and not gain any width on the combine or you could even make the rotor a little longer. 5. put a 30 inch rotor in it so you can have the helicals at the standard pitch and they will pass the feeder house opening. Put a enclosed rotor in it that has been throughly tested in all crop and conditions. 6. Make all pulleys larger to have more belt wrap so the do not slip and wear out. We want the belts to last 2000 hours. 7. Put some real chopper belts on it. I am thinking 2-3 groove belts. 8. Beef up rear axle pivot and make it so you can put 28l-26 tires on the back of it and have it turn on dime. 9. Make machine longer and redistribute weight so the back end is not so lite on the back with a 12 row head. 10. Get rid of that thing called a separator clutch and associated problems. 11. Get rid of all belt pivot idlers with grease zerks in them. The current ones are a joke. They do not stay lined up. 12. Move fuel tank to rear of combine with 275 Gallon capacity. 13. Put batteries somewhere you can get at them. 14. Make chaff spreader so the left side does not blow the chaff rite in to the straw spreader curtain and drop straight down. 15. Make a radiator and air cleaner that stays clean for 400 hour intervals in dusty conditions. Including cab filters. 16. Make the lateral tilt a lower profile so you can use the lateral on Macdon heads and others. Put the hydraulic cylinder on the side instead of on top and then you could lower the profile. 17. Make a better and larger cleaning system for corn and beans. One that does not suck the screens shut with trash and does not get cigars or trash in the corn sample. 18. Make concaves and separator grates easy to change. YES, THEY NEED TO BE DIFFERENT DESIGNS FOR DIFFERENT CROPS. Make the Rotor access door go the WHOlE way across the rotor and not stop less then a 1_3 of the way across the concave. 19. Make a rotor loss sensor that works. 20. Put a CAT engine in it. If Agco would have been putting any major money in RandD in the transverse combine in the last 15 years we would have this combine now. Now that I look at the list. The 2 other Major manufactures all ready have most of the above listed items. If AGCO did all of the above all they would be doing is catching up, but they probably would have the biggest capacity combine on the market for capacity to weight ratio. Do I think it will ever happen with a transverse rotor machine from the current AGCO CORP.IJ NO

 

[wildcat]

You raise some good points but "They are beating a dead horse"IJ I'm not sure where that came from. But since we're griping here,two of my pet peeves are the feederhouse and cab position. "3. Isomount the cab better and make it quieter. Raise the cab and make the feeder house longer to get the cab out of the dust from the header. Put an Ag leader yield monitor in it. The current Field Star is a joke for mapping." The cabs on the Challenger combines are less than a foot higher than an R62 when measured from the ground to the floor of the cab but the view into a cart or truck is significantly better. This is an issue with the large grain carts being built today. I'm thinking a longer feeder house would lift the header higher; keep the pile of straw,stalks,etc. away from the bottom of the cab; and allow room for a dust control system of some sort. Hooking up to a header would be easier if you didn't have to look straight down either; and unhooking onto a header trailer on uneven ground would be easier it could lift higher. I'm sure it would have an effect on the machine's balance to hang the header further out. "9. Make machine longer and redistribute weight so the back end is not so lite on the back with a 12 row head." That would probably be necessary with a longer feederhouse. "8. Beef up rear axle pivot and make it so you can put 28l-26 tires on the back of it and have it turn on dime." 16.9 tires are certainly the first thing to sink in the mud. Turning on a dime with 28l's might be a real trick. I'm sure some engineer could tell me why it isn't feasible to make changes in these areas without a major redesign, which I guess is the point of your post. Hopefully the class 8 unloading system is in the future for all AGCO machines. I could debate some of your other points but I can't say I disagree strongly with any of them. It would be nice to know what the powers that be are thinking. My $.02

 

[NDDan]

{Magnum man, I hope you don't mind me posting my opinions in the way I'm about to. I think the easiest way is to post response after each paragraph.} Are they even making 08'sIJ They are beating a dead horse. After 15 years they are finally getting around to trying to fix the separator clutch bearing problem. They will have to totally revamp the R series current production machine with some major changes (I am not talking Axial Flow) to get any market share back. GlEANER needs to have a combine with the WOW effect to regain any market share. If they had such a combine that was reliable and RandD it like it should be, it the would have dealers chomping at the bit to sell them and that would fix the dealer problem. lets see some of what it would take.. {Yes as stated earlier the '08s have been in production for a couple monthes. My info is recent study by AGCO on Gleaner Natural Flows future is it is certainly not a dead horse. I disagree about a total revamp but a WOW affect would sure help get some guys attention. I would beg of them not to use any flamable soy panels. There are much better uses for soybeans.} 1. Put some real belts on the RH feeder house drive. I want some belts that will run 2000 hours with out being changed. And no floor mod will do the trick to lessen torque on betls. They do need a deeper and streamlined feederhouse but it has to have some good belts on it. Put some double v belts on there that do not break even if the operator puts the feeder in reverse before it has stopped going forward or make the switch idiot proof so this does not happen. {I think you would be surprised how long feeder belts would last if you had feeder mod as the '08s have. If you have been in the conditions where you are using the reverser alot you have been shock loading belts. I don't think you can turn reverser on with header clutch on but maybe you can turn header clutch on before reverser has disengaged. Might be good idea for a time delay to prevent a guy from doing this. I'm quite sure you will become more unfamiliar where reverser switch is if you had an'08 or a prior machine with floor mod. FYI I do know of a machine in Australia that has double C belt on front and special deep side wall C belt on the rear. This was done prior to tilting floor and faster chain speed of last couple years. This might give him longer belt life but didn't fix condition of when feeder would bother. Tilting the floor has done it and we don't see any undo belt failures. If you have prior to '08 machine and have feeder woes there is an answer.} 2. Fix the bearing problems with the feeder house jack shaft pivot. And get that hydraulic swivel out of there so when you take it apart you do not break it off. {I would believe you are talking about outer race working in sheave and we have never seen this problem but I have had this pointed out to me by custom harvester. It has only occured on new machines that went basically straight from plant to long season of nonstop use. In this case I would believe with our machines the bearing sticks in sheave before it has a chance to work in sheave. With custom machines it may be wise to loctite in before to much use and or use heavier plate to clamp bearing in. We will remove bolts next to rotary union if removing shaft while supporting with strap to eyelits provided up above. This will help prevent you from damaging rotary union.} 3. Isomount the cab better and make it quieter. Raise the cab and make the feeder house longer to get the cab out of the dust from the header. Put an Ag leader yield monitor in it. The current Field Star is a joke for mapping. {What sort of noise are you getting in cabIJ I don't know where you can move cab on a combine to get out of the dust. How far would you have to move header to make it noticably betterIJ There has been some bumps in the road with Fieldstar over the last ten years but would wonder if much different than some others.} 4. put the class 8 unloader or a turrent auger on it that is not glued on the side. Narrow the machine some by putting the unloader auger above the rotor. By doing this you could have the chopper 50% wider and not gain any width on the combine or you could even make the rotor a little longer. {Not bad idea but keep it as quite as swivel system. Factory extention for 14" swivel system would be nice. I like your idea for wider chopper especially when going class 8 and larger.} 5. put a 30 inch rotor in it so you can have the helicals at the standard pitch and they will pass the feeder house opening. Put a enclosed rotor in it that has been throughly tested in all crop and conditions. {I also agree this is very posible and should be looked at for jumping a couple classes.} 6. Make all pulleys larger to have more belt wrap so the do not slip and wear out. We want the belts to last 2000 hours. {I don't know about all pulleys but I think it is getting time for larger chopper pulley with taperlock hub. Smoother flow from feeder and cylinder over the years has dramatically reduced shock loads on chopper but it is having to handle some mega flow these days. 7. Put some real chopper belts on it. I am thinking 2-3 groove belts. 8. Beef up rear axle pivot and make it so you can put 28l-26 tires on the back of it and have it turn on dime. {I like the looks of these wide tires and would no doubt help hold up the back of machine. RWA have 18.4s and I believe you can get these for 2wd machines now. If tires were set out to run in outside dual path I would surely install the poly sway pads.} 9. Make machine longer and redistribute weight so the back end is not so lite on the back with a 12 row head. {We have few 12row heads around hear but the ones that do have installed liquid in back tires. This holds down quite well without adding a bunch of weight elsewhere. I kind of like overall weight to be as light as posible which prevents the necessity for such wide and tall tires. Also the guys hauling them don't have such a tough time staying legal.} 10. Get rid of that thing called a separator clutch and associated problems. {I like the separator clutch. Yes they had a run of bad wires. Yes they had inner bearing start to growl prematurely. It just never gave us much trouble and was easy to repair. I like the KISS system and it has stayed that way. I'll certainly admit it was high on my wish list for them to fix. I know of a way to easily get more holding capacity of clutches if needed but has not been necesary as of yet. My bet is we will have that clutch until they install hydro drive. Good, bad, or otherwise I wouldn't doubt we see that someday.} 11. Get rid of all belt pivot idlers with grease zerks in them. The current ones are a joke. They do not stay lined up. {I think these things are good but could be wider at key high belt speed locations. Also cut spiral grooves around pivot bushing so when they do get greased there is better chance of grease getting where it has become dry.} 12. Move fuel tank to rear of combine with 275 Gallon capacity. {Why such a huge fuel tankIJ} 13. Put batteries somewhere you can get at them. 14. Make chaff spreader so the left side does not blow the chaff rite in to the straw spreader curtain and drop straight down. {long factory chaff spreader fins like some jobbers have would be nice. I understand they help alot with high blast of wind from shoe. Spreader curtain is cut a bit higher and shoe tailboard often times lowered a bit to fit these. Cylinder set up to prevent excess chaff is also good.} 15. Make a radiator and air cleaner that stays clean for 400 hour intervals in dusty conditions. Including cab filters. 16. Make the lateral tilt a lower profile so you can use the lateral on Macdon heads and others. Put the hydraulic cylinder on the side instead of on top and then you could lower the profile. 17. Make a better and larger cleaning system for corn and beans. One that does not suck the screens shut with trash and does not get cigars or trash in the corn sample. {Do you still have vertical screen ahead of fanIJ This didn't work in some conditions and Gleaner has went back to screen under transmision. Maybe the chopping or shreading heads are creating some new problems hear. Another thing that comes to mind are the tires sizes these days. Don't know what would be better. Ground clearance can vary nearly 10" from 30.5 32s to 20.8 42s with 4" axle risers.} 18. Make concaves and separator grates easy to change. YES, THEY NEED TO BE DIFFERENT DESIGNS FOR DIFFERENT CROPS. Make the Rotor access door go the WHOlE way across the rotor and not stop less then a 1_3 of the way across the concave. {Front or bottom 1_2 of thresher concave (which most important) is not that hard to R+R in my opinion. We have found either high wide wire or low narrow wire with every other wire removed will work very exceptional in all crops if cylinder is flowing straw properly. Adapting number of filler bars can fine tune the job. I will agree with an easier to R+R concave assembly would be great. I would rather see hinged fillers that can be easily swung up or down as needed. Wouldn't want think about swaping concaves or prethresher screens ect. to switch crops. I'm also with you on wider access door to cylinder. No reason we won't get that when they smoothen off the back end of machine.} 19. Make a rotor loss sensor that works. {Do you think they need to relocate loss pad to more disirable locationIJ} 20. Put a CAT engine in it. {Please don't do this. AGCOs own currant engine is so sweet and we don't have to deal with separate engine manufacture. Nothing wrong with CAT or Cummins but!!!!} If Agco would have been putting any major money in RandD in the transverse combine in the last 15 years we would have this combine now. Now that I look at the list. The 2 other Major manufactures all ready have most of the above listed items. If AGCO did all of the above all they would be doing is catching up, but they probably would have the biggest capacity combine on the market for capacity to weight ratio. Do I think it will ever happen with a transverse rotor machine from the current AGCO CORP.IJ NO {AGCO has put a lot of their time making this combine rock solid. They have made vast improvements from header to spreader. Yes there has been blunders and yes some things didn't come as fast as we wanted. We now have most of what we wanted but will never be completely satisfied. Unless something changes my best guess is the WOW affect Natural Flow will be coming. In these times it's any buddies guess!!!

 

[magnum_man]

A few comments and answers. I have a modified floor in my combine. I still break belts. It does help but you still have to back up the headers if they plug. All corn heads take a lot of torque to back up with that skinny little belt. And also there is these things called rocks that stop the feeder house. If you shell any amount of corn you will realize how loud the cab is. Other combines with the cab higher and longer feeder house stay a lot quieter and cleaner. Some better accoustic material in the cab would help. You feel some vibrations in this cab more than others due to the cab being bolted up behind your head. Id like to see 4 rubber mounts on the floor. Maybe some air bags. Some fields are rough at Gleaner Speeds. Thazt would have a WOW effect. I need a bigger fuel tank so i run all day with out filling it up 3_4 of the way thru the day. My fuel supplier can not keep diesel off the steps and front tire making a mess. if the tank was in the back i would not have to step thru it all day long. I have old style screens on belly. THey help but are not the anwser. Not all trash in sample is coming thru cleaning fan. I hate the seperator clutch. Yea, it is easy to work if you are a contorisnist with the wires. You just should not have to work on it every couple 100 hours. Just to much down time. There has been no fix yet. The rotor loss sensor pad needs to stay on for more than a couple 100 hours and it is not very accurate. The main drive and hyrdo idler are the ones needing the most attention. The Tier 3 Sisi is not proven yet in a combine. The oil looks pretty thick and black to me. At least i have not heard of them breaking cranks like some other major manufacture. I like plastic panels. Just a few ramblings. My Gleaner is not leaving yet. PS Do you realy think they would put a Hydraulic driven rotor in itIJ That would be sorta neat. If they did that they need to mount the drive pump directly off the engine not thru some belt. Same for Hydro. PS 2 I now i can not spell or type. Maybe i need some of tbrans glasses. Also a pair with some sunshades for looking at the fieldstar II at night.

 

[R_O_M]

Shouldn't have to do this to any monitor but Rolf had night time problems with a very bright, non dimming seeder monitor some years ago. He rounded up a light green coloured, rigid translucent plastic panel from somewhere and just slips that onto the front of the monitor screen at night. Works well.

 

[NDDan]

I'm sorry Magnum man but I just figured out who you are and would like to follow up with a couple questions and comments. If I'm correct you have an '05 Cummins powered R65 with hinged feeder floor and '07 AGCO Sisu powered R65. First I believe you only have floor tilted in '05 machine and glad to hear you believe it is reversing 12 row head that is stressing the belt. Maybe even more to do with very quick engagement of header clutch before reverser has chance to disengage. This is good info and makes sense. I'd like to ask you a couple questions on noise you hear in cab when in corn. Do you have poly snouts on corn head and is it a HuggerIJ Have you been able to run both '07 and '05 that has tilted floor togetherIJ This would be nice to know for the '07 would have four strand chain and '05 may not. Maybe it is header noise more than feeder noise you are hearing. I can not remember but I believe you got full floor tilt kit from me for 3 stand chain system and that would double insulate noise from cobs going up front feeder as well as making great transition to rear feed. I have been in corn where there is basically no noise and then move to a variety that sounds like someone beating a drum. This was in older machine prior to 1_4" tilted floors and header without plasic snouts ect. Wish I could get some seat time in these things. I do know that just a small opening from door not shuting tight can make cab alot noisier. I hear you on fuel tank capacity and location especially if the guys have tendency to overflow it. I don't get many complaints on capacity of tank but do have some guys braging on how long they can go now with hyperized or supersized machine. While some were used to filling at supper time they can now go day and half plus. I know a days work can vary from area to area and crop to crop. When figuring it out I can see even at great fuel economy that 150 gallons would not be enough for the longest days. Ease of crop flow threw machine can make the difference of a seemingly fuel hog to a miser on fuel. I hate to even make the comparison a guy gave me between equally hyped machine other than sweep rotor in one and Bison in other. It can be very dramatic in some crops and conditions. I wouldn't suspect your corn sample being dirtier than you would like to be material coming threw fan. Maybe if you have all air passages entering fan area covered with leaf screens they could be plugging after prolonged running without shutting off seperator. This would complicate shoes ability to float off excess MOG that your cylinder setup could be causing. On seperator clutch. Are you saying you run proto clutch with very large bearing and they become noisy on youIJ Or are you saying either your '07 with latest wiring harness or '05 that may have newer harness installed has failed. I did hear some '07 clutches were positioned wrong and then failed wire. I believe there should be a fail safe way of installing wire or at least an instruction sheet with new wire that points out proper installation. Then of course top guality tie wraps and enough of them should come with the harness. Your right in that if this was done right no one would even know there is a wire in there. I don't know if you have the latest cylinder loss senser pad but I believe like you wish it has been retained better very lately. Plastic panels would be great just make them fire proof. I wouldn't want to see a huge puddle of silver plastic because of just a little fire somewhere. I wouldn't have a glue about hydro drive rotor and wouldn't vote for it but think there is a real posibility down the road. I'm no expert on Fieldstar 2 but believe a software upgrate last spring addressed this. Thanks for your insite and comments