Combines CR s are the Cadillac s here s why

I guess we all hear what we want to hear. I was in the NH meeting and I and throughly looked the CR over at the trade show and I'm not impressed with this machine for the following reasons: n1 It uses a grain pan. In perfect, dry, level conditions a grain pan works fine and does start to separate the grain before the shoe. However, if the crop material is damp the flutes in the pan will pack full of dirt and the pan won't move material worth a dang. Pans also don't positively move grain when traveling up and down hills. This is part of the reason NH has such a large shoe, to compensate for uneven material handling by the grain pan. There are more problems with grain pans but I'll save the space and not go into it. In short they are old technology, look at the combines built before 1965 and you will see a lot of grain pans. They were sent to the dustbin for a reason. Auger beds are not perfect either but I prefer their drawbacks vs. a grain pan based on my past experiences. n2 The twin rotors do not feed evenly when picking up swaths on one side of the pickup and having all of the material on one side of the feederhouse (to avoid ruts etc.). The New Holland reps. did a poor job of trying to sweep this under the rug and not give a straight answer. If they don't believe it happens they can come ride with me and I'll show them. n3 The rethreshing system utilizes a small spike tooth cylinder, which may be OK for small grains but you have to switch to a smooth cover for beans or corn or it will pulverize the grain. I tried to get a straight answer from the NH rep on the floor how this system could be an advantage for beans and corn but did not get a good answer. I guess that's what the sloped augers that return the material to the shoe are for....grind up the corn fine enough that the fan can carry it out the back of the combine. n4 The self leveling shoe is the same as used on the CX combines that are sold in Canada. The leveling shoe is a good idea but they have a poor fan design. If the air distribution on the CR shoe has not been improved over the CX they have some serious work that needs to be done. This is another reason for the large shoe, poor air distrubution from the fan. n5 WEIGHT!!! These machines are aboslutely too heavy. In wet conditions they will be wallowing in mud up to the hubs. With the increase in weight and longer rotors the hp. required to get these machines through the field will be substantially higher than the TR's. My hunch is that these machines will be dogs in the field compared to the TR's they replace, especially when wet. Not to be all doom and gloom the NH has an excellent cab, with what seems like a pretty intuitive layout. The infoview monitor seems too small to me to see all of the data I would normally like to see without flipping through a bunch of screens, but I haven't run one yet so I'll reserve judgement. I'm sure they will be a good combine and have many unigue features but I just don't see a lot that will make them superior to what other manufacturers in the market are offering.

SF, I'm not sure what combine you run now, but I take it you have never ran a New Holland. Because if you did you would not say what you are saying about the grain pan. New Holland has had it on all TR's and I don't think it has ever gave anyone any problems. I know that I have had TR's sence 1977 and I have never had any problems and I could not tell you even how to take it apart or what to work on one. It is very trouble free. How do you get the rotor to feed one one sideIJ Again I don't do windrowed crops, but I can't really see how the crop could only go on one side. I have seen a green wad of grass come in one one side of my old TR and plug the rotor on the other side of the combine. I don't think this is a big problem for many people if anyIJ The rethreshing is for very hard to thresh crops, like wet wheat they tell me. In corn if you have the rotor set right you should not have any going back over. Have never had anyone complain about the fan, again if you have the combine set right. Some people want to over thresh the straw or crop sometimes and can overload the shoe. Also the combine has to be kept running full. Some people don't push there combines fast enough to do a good job. I agree that they are heavy. But I look at it and I can't find any place where I can say that this should have not been made as strong as it is. It will be a combine that will last and not shake apart like some other makes have in the past. If I was you I would try to get a demo this year for a day or so and then pass judgement on it. A lot of the new CR is a new concept and is hard to compare to anything that we have ever run before. It may not be a combine for everyone, but I'm sure some of us will enjoy it. Ilnh

n3 and n5 are sure plain as black and white to me too, "Stillfarming"! Guys, you need to think about this weight issue a little harderIJ They are not using any larger tires than a TR could equip. So how do you float an extra 10,000-15,000 across wet groundIJ How will the hydro, tranny and final drives handle this extra torque in wet conditionsIJ A 940 has how much more hp than a '99IJ And it has the same engine, noIJ "No mans land" is where it will be in wet harvest conditions! The rethreshing system is 1960's technology, it has proven itself non-effective over time! Yes, by all means.....hail to the CR! You guys are getting as bad as many have accused the Deere's guys over the yearsIJ Just because they(NH) build it, does not mean you have to buy into it!!!!! JD

Why are they the Cadillac, they caught up with the CAT lexion. There are a few things which are inovative such as the stone trap but it sounds like a headache in the making to me. Info-view monitor, sounds alot like the CEBIS monitor on the lexion. lexion has been able to set all funtions from the cab and has had crop setting memory since 1998. The automatic shoe leveling sounds complicated. I cannot say too much about this as I failed to look over this part when I viewed a CR but the lexion's 3-D seive system conquers slopes up to 15% by using a hydraulic system to shake the shoe sideways to compensate for slopes. The lexion also features an undershot feederhouse that is the same width as the threshing system. Fuses and relays, the lexion also has this feature, all electrical components including modules, relays, and fuses are found behind a door on the ladder platform. Straw chopper, the new wide spread chopper now available will spread evenly through the full width of the header and with the flip of lever will drop into windrow and the chaff spreader will still be spread. I don't know what NH calls it but the lexion introduced the Mulit-link conector five years ago also. And last, New Holland is not the first class VIII. The lexion 480_485 has been a class 8 since its intro in 1998. So before you think that New Holland came up with all these inovations take a look at a lexion they are already there.

I will compare our Claas lexions to an Audi,BMW or Mercedes any of these would take on your tinpot Cadillac's anyday!!!

He speaks the truth about the lEXION.

What do you mean by "tinpot"IJ If you mean not being constructed sturdy I know you are wrong.As for comparing top of the line featuresNH is way ahead. I know of no other combine that has won as many awards for engineering features as NH. So where does your lexion excellIJ Is it capacityIJ DependabilityIJ Or just whatIJ

The lexion got introcuced in 1995 in Europe. So it took NH 8 years to catch up. But if Claas doesn't get their threshing and separating problems sorted out, besides all their service issues, the CR will still run over it like the TR did.

Sorry, but I have to disagree on a few points and here is why: n1 grain pan: I have been running JD for a few years and lexions last year. The lexion had a superior sample in wheat. We had days with 90% green weeds and only 10% wheat and have been in high moisture corn for weeks. The grain pan never failed a bit. But the augers on the JDs constantly needed fixing. n3 rethreshing: In corn you should not have any return. We even take the bottom seive out many times and block the return. n5 weight: Everybody is bragging about the capacity when they get in one of those hogs. A few hundred hours later they complain about everything wearing out so fast and breaking like the STS does. The only way to get these capacity giants to last is to put more iron in them. Therefor tracks should become more a standard like the automatic transmission in cars did. The Birotor combine had solutions for many of these issues already 10 years ago.

I'm just doing a bit of "chain pulling" here,we run two lexions and a NH tx plus JD,MF and Renault tractors and even a Case big square baler,so I would say we have a foot in nearly every camp!! last autumn had a Claas 470 lex on demo she was harvesting 50 metric tonne_hour in winter wheat with a 25f head ,not bad going considering she was not run in.Ref Claas product support I have seen a part for our 900 Claas chopper being brought out to the field by taxi, This is not to say that Claas are perfect by any standards.