Combines May not mean nothing butIJ

It's too bad CAT didn't acquire CaseIH prior to the Case_New Holland and AGCO_Challenger mergers and_or acquisitions. It would have been a good "little" competitor on the market. It's no secret that Case_NH is hurting, and I think it's only going to get worse.

Hell Cat sold off their ag lines for the most part. Now they handle NH's parts distr. and everyones talks about how bad it isIJIJIJ Actually, seems the auto biz of Fiat is the real drain on the trio. JD

CAT logistics has handled NH parts shipping since about the time Ford Motor Company sold their majority holdings of Ford Tractor Operations to Fiat. I think last year the ag part did decent the construction was a loss and the auto market for Fiat took a nosedive. Fiat started sucking money away from the subsidiary companies which has also hurt the parts availiblity of NH and CaseIH. They did actually improve the warehouse stocking alot late last yearcompared to what they were allowed to stock early in the year.

Cat hasn't handled NH parts for probably a little over a year now. Don't blame Cat, they didn't do anything wrong. They made everyone stop and look at what is possible when you don't follow mainstream thinking and become creative. Challenger tractors continue to this day to be the benchmark many strive for. Directly competitive models and brands with Cat Challengers have yet been able to give the Challenger line, past and present, a run for their money, and Cat continues to back the Agco Challenger tracked tractors, making them a force to be reckoned with. Bad mouthing Cat for a sound economical decision isn't right. There is no reason why we should settle for the same models of equipment year after year, series after series with only simple feature and size changes and unique style changes. We need to see changes in the types of technology used. We need to see another "manual to automated era," "horse to tractor era" if we are to continue and be successful at it. Cat started it and I don't think we have seen the end of the influence yet in all equipment sectors, ag included.

Dude, I wasn't bad mouthing Cat. Just pointing out what had happened, they left the Ag sector for the most part on their own. The Cat Challenger tractor was nothing but a NH Genesis with tracks and Cat motor. To claim Cat's Challenger was far and above all other's at the time is just a gross overstatement. There was nothing technologically advanced on that machine over the Genesis, unless you think rubber tracks where a giant leap forward which sales numbers proved other wise. Be interesting to know the ratio that the Genesis out sold the Cat Challenger in those daysIJ "Cat started it".....what was thatIJ JD

JHEnt, Do you know what kind of floorplan NH has now if they have one, any detailsIJ Has it been changed recentlyIJ Thanks, JD

Have to agree with you. If CAT would be so innovative, why did they scrap the birotor, they had invested inIJ In my opinion CAT flat doesn't know how to play in the ag market and they finally realized it and went out. I would much rather have it the other way.

From what I know nothing has changed in the floorplan. I don't know any real details as that is info for the dealer priciples and like most places is not shared with anyone else. As far as parts they have most parts back in stock but they tend to keep certain parts in only a couple of warehouses notin all of them. This means a longer wait many times for daily orders. CAT logistics still handles NH parts unlke what the above post said. I know a guy who used to work for NH corp but now works with NH parts system on contract from CAT logistics. The new job was just a few miles from his home. You really can't blame him for changing jobs. By the way some of these bad rumors came from the lack of availiblity of tractors of many models from late last year into the first few months this year. This was because of the newer models being started. There was a limited number of previous models in NA while theassemby lines were being refit. I some cases there was a delay because of the IVECO factory being refit for production of the new EEA branded engines. Some series just have newer styled sheetmetl while other got new engines or a complete rebuild like the TS-A. IVECO and CNH Global were spending alot last year for the redesign. I kind of get the feeling you're first post was to try to start a color war. As far as your finacial statement you do know that Fiat owns about 84% of CNH Global and that General Motors owns 20% of Fiat group don't youIJ

Not in the least. No I didn't know that butIJ You think GM is gonna bail CNH out when Fiat takes the diveIJ I doubt that, they could have entered the Ag sector many times before with a more stable company. My family has been a NH user for 50+ years, doesn't mean I'm blind to fact thoughIJ JD

"On the financial side, GM will buy a 20% share in Fiat Auto, while Fiat SpA will receive in exchange 5.1% of GM's shares (though there will be no exchange of board representatives). The Fiat group will become GM's second-largest shareholder (the majority of the shares are in the hands of a US investment fund) and its leading industrial partner. The financial agreement provides also for the option, though not the obligation, of Fiat SpA offering - not sooner than three and half years, and not later than nine years from the signature of the agreement - the remaining 80% of its shares to GM, which will have a first option to purchase them." Mkt Cap $Mil Sales $Mil Growth Profit- ability Financial Health CNH Global NV 2,499.0 9,940 A C- D- Deere and Company 18,239 16,225 A B- B- Kubota ADR 5,807 7,539 C C C Briggs and Stratton 1,640 1,816 B+ A- A AGCO 1,458 3,495 A+ C D Toro 1,395 1,462 B- B+ A- lindsay Manufacturing 289 170 B A+ A Alamo Group 152 279 B B+ A- lesco 115 522 C D C Gehl 92 239 D B D+ Art's-Way Manufacturing 10 11 D- D B Industry Average is equal-weighted. Mkt Cap as of 05-06-04. Sales TTM through most recent quarter-end. Grades through 05-05-04.