Combines Red about timing the 4400

[The_Red]

Got the manuals on Monday. Ralph Thompson from Arkansas called over the weekend who cut his teeth on GM 292 engines. I have the timing pretty close now. I took the valve cover off and cranked the engine. When the n6 exhaust valve just closes, then n6 is at the top on exhaust stroke and n1 is at the top on compression stroke. You note where the rotor is (this distributor had been removed somewhere along the line) and adjust the distributor base so the n1 post is lining up with the rotor. That got rid of the backfiring immediately. Also got new plug wires and distributor cap. Next is plugs even though these look new, I might have a dud. I think the main problem is that I have rings not seating. I am guessing only 3 cylinders are firing right now. Not enough to sustain it. Also I might have to tear the carburetor apart one more time and blow it out again. The engine seemed like it would almost sustain then fizzle each time. Ralph suggested I open up the high speed mixture to 4 full turns. If that doesn't work, then I have a partially plugged jet again. The timing mark is way off on that balancer pulley. I think we spun the pulley when we broke the engine loose a month ago. It is comprised of an inner ring, rubber, and the outer ring with the timing mark according to Ralph. I thought it was just a solid pulley like on a Farmall H or M. Worst case would be pulling the head next spring, pulling the pistons out and replacing the rings and having the head re-worked at NAPA.

 

[JHEnt]

When you do get it running, the timing should be 12 degrees before top dead center. If the pulley is turned on the rubber part of the balancer it will be hard to set. I didn't know the 292 had a harmonic balancer on it, but since it does it sounds like you will have to get a new or used one to replace the one you have so you can finish setting the timing. You mensioned on the thread above that you were watching the valves on no.6 cyl. You should be able to just watch the intake on no.1 When it closes and before the exhuast opens you will be at TDC.

 

[The_Red]

You are correct but it helps to see both of them. The Deere operator's manual (manuals showed up Monday) reads 4 degrees before TDC. This distributor has mechanical springs to advance it. I'll just set it by ear like I do on my Farmall Hs for now. Yes the balancer will have to be fixed or replaced. If she runs tomorrow, I won't push the rpms above 1,500. I have a feeling it will take a good hour of running before most of the cylinders come alive. I have the belt loosened up on the alternator_water pump. A GM mechanic told me to run it without the pump turning until it gets hot so I don't blow the seal in the water pump. He said I should beable to run it a good 20 minutes before it overheats. Then I let her cool down and place tension on the belt and let er rip. Anybody want to place bets the alternator is toastIJ That is my bet.

 

[95man]

Red, I have been enjoying your stories and experiences from bringing this machine back from the dead, but if you are going to use this machine in the field quite a bit, it sounds like you're going to have to put several hundred dollars into rebuilding the whole thing. A good diesel 4400 with low hours can be found for under $2000 these days if you look hard enough. Good luck with this machine and if I have any info, i'll be sure to share. 95man

 

[The_Red]

Thank you 95man. After I get this engine running, I will be running another story for Kim Pratt over at ytmag.com. Cross your fingers. I am trying another start tomorrow afternoon. It may be my last window of opportunity for awhile. The 4400 will get a token 40 acres of use each year and yes I have budgeted $3,000 for this project. This is strictly to have some fun. I have not seen any 4400s in east central IN at the $2,000 price tag. There are some ridiculous prices on the Deere Machine finder site.

 

[JHEnt]

RED, I stated before that the timing was supposed to 12 degrees because a couple of years ago when I was working on our gas I asked a JD tech to look it up in their service manual and thats what he told me. From my experience I can tell that engine warms up pretty fast. I don't know if you can run it 20 min without the pump running or not. We run without the thermostat because of how hot those engines run in the field. If you notice the water bypass hose is nearly the same dia as the radiator hose. It circulates a lot of water right back into the engine without passing though the radiator. On all newer automotive engines the pump bypass is a 5_8 or 3_4 dia hose.

 

[The_Red]

Thanks for the observations. I'll be watching that engine carefully IF I get it running.

 

[The_Red]

I stand corrected. Just looked at both the owners and technical manuals. Timing is 4 degrees before top dead center at 550 rpm. I'll keep my eye out on the potential overheat IF I can get it to fly.

 

[rotor_man]

Red JHE is right. If the cooling system has antifreeze in it the water pump seal will be ok.