Combines The lEXION Combine and Dealers are here to stay

I also couldn't find anything on orange's supposed report. Talked to my dealer as well, he didn't seem concerned. Its just typical for what lexion has had to put up with from its competitors since entering the North American market place.

It humors me so much when everytime a salesman shows up at my place and begins talking about their competitiors, for lack of anything else to say! I think it is just a natural instinct for a salesman to defame his_her competitors the way they do. Do you think for one minute that I should believe the green guys when they say that "such and such won't be in the business long," or believe the red guys when they say "so and so is having a heck of time," I don't! If you ever expect me to believe anything, you have to show in writing, that is the way it goes. listening to my peers and service providers on such issues is bad business and should be taken lightly. If you feel the need to say it, then you should also be willing to write it, sign it and obligate yourself to it if it is the real truth.

Respectfully responding to your "wishful" rumour comments. The recent posting asked for viewpoints on the Challenger_Claas combines. I responded with information that I as a buyer would want to know making this kind of investment. This is not hyperbole, disdain, or any other vengeance type of response. Frankly, I think both machines are excellent choices with the technical edge likely going to the Claas judging by what I have read. However, when I listened to a live conference called the "Goldman Sachs Capitol Goods Conference" held November 4-5 in New York City and the reference was made during a discussion with an ag analyst named JoAnn from Goldman Sachs to the future of Class_Cat, if I were a buyer, I would want to know what was said. If you dispute this info that I am just passing along, I would suggest you contact Goldman Sachs in NY,NY and request a transcript of this conference. I am sure they will be more than happy to provide it to you. This is not fabricated, made up or concocted from Art Bell's overnight. It is only info. for your discretion to assist you in making decisions. Use it accordingly.

Hey, dont be hating on my man Art Bell! lOl

In response to Orange, analysts make all sort of comments, speculations. Just like each of us, analysts state their opinion. let's not forget how many of the stock market analysts completely missed the boat over the past few years (ie, Enron).

Not to be a jerk about it, but Cat said they were "commited to agriculture" too. Now they have washed their hands of it from a corporate point of view. Maybe half of their dealers are actively in the combine market now and I can't see more joining. Resale values are going through the floor and I don't see the brakes being applied anytime soon. Once people get scared about a brand, the whole thing just snowballs. Especially in a shrinking market like combines. I wouldn't touch a Caterpillar lexion with a ten foot pole even if they are a good machine.

Deere, Case, and Agco also say they are committed to agriculture, but how do you know they aren't going to pull out. More speculation. How long would the lexion need to be in the North American market for you to be satisfied that they are here for goodIJ

The back bone behind the lEXION, Claas is stronger than ever. They are the largest ag equipment manufacture in Europe. They have made over 400,000 combines. They have a brand new facility in Omaha, NE. The CAT dealers selling ag have made significant investments in facilities and people. Face it, your a closed minded individual. Your so scared of what the lEXION may do, that you'll bad mouth it instead of learning about it. Did it ever occur to you that some individuals in the market place like and embrace the lEXION. You don't see the cat people bashing Deere, Do youIJ CAT_lEXION customers could start rumors about Deere, but they don't. They are above that.

I don't think I honestly need to argue about "Cat customers do not bash Deere" since there have been many Cat people over the last few years on the Deere page taking swings like lee Trevino. I will admit they have been strangely silent for the last year or so....I wonder whyIJ I do not think I am being closed-minded. I readily admit that I am biased towards Deere, warts and all. I have never claimed otherwise. The point that I am making, and I still believe it is true, is that Caterpillar claimed that they were 100% committed to agriculture and the lexion line. Fast forward to today. The indisputible fact is that CAT sold off their agricultural patents and manufacturing plants to Agco and sold their 50% interest in the lexion plant back to Claas. A second indisputable fact is that Claas, however good a company they may be world wide, does not have much of a presence in North America at least outside the forage harvester line. Certainly not in combines. I don't know about where you are, but Claas Dominators and other old Claas combines you stumble across from time to time are priced extremely cheap compared to anything similar. Resale value, not to mention product support is nearly non-existent. Nothing against the combine, that is simply reality. What attracted most lexion owners to the combines was the CAT name and support. Now that the name is only skin deep and dealer support is up in the air with the whole "Challenger" line of ag machinery at CAT dealerships, resale values are dropping. If you think that is a rumour, just check the local paper. Half the time the CAT combines don't even have prices beside them in the paper. When you do see a price, it is almost universally lower than a comparitive Case or Deere machine. I haven't seen a CAT combine go at auction yet, so I will have to plead ignorance there. As a general rule, this kind of change is never good. I hope the fall levels out and that CAT dealers keep supporting existing lexion owners. If that doesn't happen, the guys who invested in Caterpillar's name will have paid a steep price in depreciation the next time they go to trade. Claas may prove me totally wrong. They have done a great job with forage cutters, so time will tell. Face facts. They have an uphill climb ahead.

I guess one main difference is that Case, Agco, and Deere don't make the majority of their money in another industry, specifically construction. If they were to "pull out" they would basically be folding their tents. I doubt Deere could stay in business selling lawn mowers and vintage Chad little action figures. That said, I suppose their isn't much certainty with anybody anymore. I could argue that since Case, Agco and Deere have all been in the ag industry for a very long time, while Cat has been in, then out, then in again and now out again, history points to the ag companies being "here for good" The second point is that none of my argument is speculation. Cat has sold their share of the lexion venture back to Claas. Some of their dealers still carry them, but CAT has also hopped into bed with another combine manufacturer under the Challenger label. This is not speculation. It is fact. They have also sold off the only other ag line they had, the Challenger track machines, to Agco. lock, stock, barrel, and patents. No speculation here. If Claas can develop their market like they have with forage harvesters, stick with them and support them for at least the next five years, and garner a big enough chunk of the combine market (lets say 20% or better) to survive until I'm not farming anymore, then I will consider them "here for good." Now for the speculation: No ag product I can think of has ever survived the type of arrangement that the lexion combine is in right now. When Cat dealers dump the lexion line in favour of the Challenger line of combines, that will start the long downward spiral. I give them two years. Claas will either sell off the Omaha plant or cease combine production and start assembling forage harvesters and hay equipment for North America.