Combines Well guys I saw the new

[NHD]

Thanks JD!!! You expressed my centiments exactly. The dealers and the new managementhave wanted to join the pack instead of leading the pack for sometime. Earlier a wrote you a reply that expressed my feelings better but, someone thought I used some offensive words do they wouldn'tlet it go thru.By the way te CR-940 weighs about 10,000 lbs.more than a TR-99

 

[caribou]

It sounds like you got up on the wrong side of bed. Why so negativeIJ Sure there is maybe some logic to what you are saying, but you are way out of line. As I write this, I am currently all John Deere. My combine is a 8820 II that I have a St. John Welding cylinder on plus many other options. I will run this machine until I see a machine that is superior. So far I haven't found that. I would not trade my machine even up for a new JD. The TR99 is tempting, but has it's downfalls. I am hoping that in a few years the CR's will be the machine to beat. I don't think your comments have merit compared to the good things that this machine has. Did you actually look at the grain qualityIJ What about throughput performanceIJ I'd like to see some facts before all the harping!

 

[JD]

caribou, I say good for you if you have what you feel like is the best for you! But your critisim of my opinion on the CR is a bit un-warranted. Our operation has been running TR's since 1977, before that New Holland ran the prototype to the TR on some farms around starting in the late 60's. So we saw this machine develope as did "New Holland's Idea" of what a combine should be at the same time. In 1983 we ran a prototype of what became the TR-96,97,98 series. During these years, it seemed to us NH knew they had the seperation process pretty well nailed, they only updated the surrounding supporting components to the seperation process. They kept right on doing this very same thing right up to the TR-99. Now with the new series of machines they have abandoned many of the oringinal concepts which proved themselves worthy of their implementation throughout 30 some years of R and D. The new machine may have some features that they have offered in Europe or other markets for sometime, I dunno about that. But I do know that the majority of designs on this machine are NEW to a the Twin Rotor concept and I dare say very un-proven. The only thing that looks to be of original design are the rotors and discharge beater and the Genesis motor. Yes the rotors are longer but they are not unique. I'm not sorry for my opinion and I'm pretty sure I'll never be on this subject. The crying shame is that NH left us(loyal TR customers) to become one of the pack when we where the ones supporting the program all along! Oh, your question about grain sample, quality, I really didn't need to go view this machine in operation because the guy who climbed in the drivers seat was the same "kid" who claimed it to be far superior to a TR. I know what the TR is capable of doing as far a grain sample goes and properly set or not this machine will not beat a TR in that department! JD

 

[JD]

Thanks Don! I knew it had to be a good 8000n's heavier just from looking at all the crap over 10 feet high on it. I know you must feel as sick about this as myself, here we supported this combine program for so many years and they changed it to what they preached against and sold us on for so many years! And yes their preachings where correct at the time and they still are! Handle the grain with foreign objects as little as possible, transfer the grain from point A to B with as little lift as possible...etc, etc. Yep, their right along side Deere and Cat(Claas) with this concept! Good luck, JD

 

[dakota]

Thanks for the info about the CR and their return system. It made me real curious about finding a cut away picture of a CR, to see and better understand this contraption. Does anybody know about a cut away pictureIJ

 

[mx270]

Change can either be a good or bad thing but in the end it almost always works out. I am sure the people in CNH are also very worried about how things are going to go for the new series. I dont think they would have come out with the CRs if they thought that they did not need them. It does not matter what brand or color they are any more all of them are going to have strong points and and weak points i also think that it is hard to form a good opinion until you have actually ran and serviced a CR for a couple of seasons. mx270

 

[JD]

mx270, you are missing my point. Really, I don't care how it operates after a few seasons....why you ask or I'm stupid you sayIJ Maybe so, but my reasoning is that they(NH) have left there platforms on which the Twin Rotor design was conceived upon. Which included what I've said above such as.....handle the the grain as little as possible, lift the grain no farther than needed to get it into the tank, simplicity in design means less moving parts to wear or come out of adjustment and many other statements that apply to the change. I'm not implying that all the electrical gizmo's is the root of this evil, they may actually work well and hold upIJ It's that they completely redesigned the whole supporting cast of components to the rotors and discharge beater and have implemented much longer belts, chains and a pile of Hyd driven parts when there was no need for this! You maybe right, this change may be for the bestIJ But, it's my belief that the majority of loyal TR customers with myself would be willing to bet the farm that it's a giant step backwards for a program with over 30 years in developement! JD

 

[Ilnewholland]

As one who has seen a CR-970 in Aug. and then drove the combine for an hour last week, I have to say at first I would agree with you JD. The first time I saw the combine I was not sure what to think as it does not look like my TR-98 at all. But I think the TR-99 was about as far they could go with that design and had to change the whole combine. The self leveling cleaning system will increase efficiency without the combine being even wider or longer than it is. This also why the drives are higher up on the combine because of self-leveling. The stone trap is improved also as are the new longer rotors. After I drove the CR-970 and looked it over again I could see why things are built like that. The CR-970 is a very big combine as I could not overload with a 12 row cornhead in 150bpa corn. I was going 6mph in rolling ground and the header height control would follow land the like terrain tracer does on the grain heads. I really think a 16 row cornhead would work on this combine. It is not a combine(CR-970) for everyone as I am glad they are still making a class 5(CR-920) for 6 and 8 row corn heads. I think if you drive and look over the combines again and see the grain sample at the speed you can go the combine does not look so bad. It is a change as big as the TR-70 was over everything else was in the 1970's.

 

[johnboy]

JD the new CR's are based on the CX frame (conventional) which was born from the TX models so the returns system is an old idea for NH.A reason for the height is that European width restrictions are making them stay narrow and nowdays everything is built for the world market.We work a TR99 with the TXs' and where the TX will beat the TR is in the cleaning, that is sieves, they are wider and so the new CRs should be better in our conditions in that regard.I agree with you that the TR seems a lot simpler to work on yet a R72 is a lot better again. The worst thing seems to be is the cost,there is no way at the moment a new one could pay for itself in our operation.john

 

[JD]

IlNH, Thanks for your insight on this subject! Now a couple questions if you would not mindIJ Why do you think think the TR-99 was as far as they could have gone with this machineIJ Is the '99 not as big to a TR-70 as the CR-970 is to to a '99IJ Have no problem with the self-leveling shoe, actually the dealer who was there said that was the only thing he liked about the new CR. No more wind boards to set and adjust is a good thing. I still think the designers of this machine just wanted to have a platform very close to a JD and_or Cat as they are the "big" boys in the game. This is what stinks about the whole thing to me. I don't like all the size and added weight and don't understand the need for it. NHDon said the 940 weighs 10000n's more than a '99, did the self leveling shoe require all that extra weight to be addedIJ They are comparable machines, are they notIJ I'll stick with the '99 platform myself! JD