Combines Why can t AGCO see the big pictureIJ

First of all, the STS JD in my neighborhood is the biggest JOKE out of Moline since the straight 9000 series JD combines that didn't have enough fan to clean the grain and got recalled and updated to the 10 series or sold the owners grain cleaners. I won't let one of them on my place to put all the chaff in the bin and the STS has a dealer service truck follow it around until it was traded back in and now they own a CIH again. The biggest problem that Gleaner had was Deutz and as you well know, the last of the N's and the first R's for their time were quite the machine. It is too bad that Agco hasn't had the ag economy of the 70's to rebuild Allis and Gleaner.

I too have wondered the same thing, the F's,M's and l's were tremendous machines right out of the factory and with a little modification they were outstanding. But it seems when they started making the rotaries they stopped listening to the farmers. Sometimes I think the engineering ego's at AGCO have gotten a little too big to listen to mere mortals like farmers. I work with chemical engineers every day and alot are a bunch of egotistical idiots when it comes to common sense. Gleaners are built heavy and very easy to work on. When I started modifying my N6 I noticed that the N6 was as easy to work on as my old F2, just bigger parts. It is kind of strange how Gleaner has built such a high capacity machine but it tooks a bunch of farmers and on the ball dealers to figure out how to release that capacity.

I agree in my area the sts machines are a big flop, oh there is a ton of them out there but you hear things. I hope agco with the closing oand consolidating of all these plants can make a good run at it. Ratliff and schumada are very very smart men. Agco definitely has that going for them

I agree with what has been said. We are the proud owners of two Hyperized machines. I've been wondering why AGCO has been so slow to react too. However, as I look around our machine shed I see two JD planters, neither of which resemble "factory" setup. We have many after market and homemade parts on it, all to increase performance specific to our conditions. Also, just look in the back of any farm magazine and you notice lots of performance enhancement kits available for tractors, combines, and planters of any make. Can you say "Kuchar" (spIJ)IJ While these are not good excuses for AGCO, I think that it does show that AGCO is not the only company that has problems making machines fit all conditions. I think part of it too maybe that Gleaner operators are more fussy than others. I have neigbors that continue to accept sub-par performance of the 9500's but don't care cuz its green. One in particular gets docked on his corn every year (over 3% BCFM). I know he would embrace the Kuchar upgrades if only Deere sold them. AGCO needs to realized that they can't get away with what Deere can. Deere can make a bad product and most consumers will forgive them and just wait till they come with something better to trade it in for. I don't think AGCO has that luxury.

I think Brian has touched on something,,,,,look around the farm and see if you have anything that is 100% factory. Then look at your own pickup you drive every day, have you done anything to it to fit your needs... It would be very hard for any company to produce a combine the that was out the door 100% in all conditions. Many the mods discussed on this page help a combine preform better in a given condition. You could make all the mod to the r6 and still find some condition it wouldn't do well in.. AGCO must produce an afforable ( we can discuss affordable later) machine that with a few minor settings can harvest corn or wheat or beans or guar or almost any other grain you can come up with... They could build combines that were specific to a crop but who would want a combine that is the best in corn but the worst in say, wheatIJ The r6 you talked about needing mods is at least 14 years old and if you try to compare it to the r62 of today it's like apples and bannanas, they ain't the same. By the way, when that r6 left the factory 14 years ago it was at least as good as anything else on the market, and how long after it left the factory did it take these guy on this page to come up with these modsIJ look at the developmentr of the processor, were are now into what is know as a p3.... it looks like the p1 but is very differnt and in my opinion better. So, its not like AGCO sitting around with same processor as the r6, still producing the p1. They have moved on and I'm sure some where in some AGCO facility on some desk or lab there is an idea or blueprint for the next processor.

I think Brian has touched on something,,,,,look around the farm and see if you have anything that is 100% factory. Then look at your own pickup you drive every day, have you done anything to it to fit your needs... It would be very hard for any company to produce a combine the that was out the door 100% in all conditions. Many the mods discussed on this page help a combine preform better in a given condition. You could make all the mod to the r6 and still find some condition it wouldn't do well in.. AGCO must produce an afforable ( we can discuss affordable later) machine that with a few minor settings can harvest corn or wheat or beans or guar or almost any other grain you can come up with... They could build combines that were specific to a crop but who would want a combine that is the best in corn but the worst in say, wheatIJ The r6 you talked about needing mods is at least 14 years old and if you try to compare it to the r62 of today it's like apples and bannanas, they ain't the same. By the way, when that r6 left the factory 14 years ago it was at least as good as anything else on the market, and how long after it left the factory did it take these guy on this page to come up with these modsIJ look at the developmentr of the processor, were are now into what is know as a p3.... it looks like the p1 but is very differnt and in my opinion better. So, its not like AGCO sitting around with same processor as the r6, still producing the p1. They have moved on and I'm sure some where in some AGCO facility on some desk or lab there is an idea or blueprint for the next processor.

I think that your neighbor should set up his 9500 a little better. A combine will operate as good as the operator sets the combine up. Most people run 9500 sidehills in our area they are tremendous machines. I don't know what he's doing wrong but nobody in my area has any problems with deeres. In fact thats about the only thing that is used. A neighbor just traded for a r52 this fall, I don't know how it will do in the steep hills in our area. As for mods people modify things because they no longer fit their needs. Most of our machinery is stock, the only thing that isn't is our corn planter (worthless ZONE tillage). Just my input.

Comment one: You assume that Agco management care about the farmers who buy and use the machines they make. I'd suggest they are more interested in empire building through acquiring many companies rather than doing a super job with just a few. Comment two: Allis is up on blocks and a 1666 is in the yard because Gleaner has discontinued the parts I need to fix a 1988 combine. My R50 isn't stock anymore but this stock 1666 will outrun it comfortably. The ease of repair advantage, however, goes to the Gleaner. Cost of repairsIJ Well, I'm sure Allis wins there - assuming high dollars is the goal.

Brian makes a very good point. I read the original post in this thread this AM but decided to think on this one for a day (for a change!) before responding. My theory is that Gleaner operators are a bit of a different breed. We didn't choose Gleaners because they are the best sellers, the fanciest, the prettiest, or because it's the most popular thing to do. I wonder myself how many green or red operators out there keep going back to the same color at trade-in time because they are blinded by that shiney paint and not because they have compared makes and choose the best performing models. I'm sure there are some Deere guys out there who keep going back to the green paint based on dealer support - and that's where I think AGCO really needs to concentrate on. But we are willing to drive the 75 miles to a good Gleaner dealer to operate what we feel is a superior design in a combine. The grain we save goes a lONG ways toward paying for the extra gas it takes to drive to that dealer maybe once or twice per year to stock up on parts. Anyhow, being a different breed, maybe we are more willing not to accept the status quo and in doing so, have found out that we can make a great product even better through the implementation of a few mods. Hey, it ain't like the mods talked about on here involve rebuilding the entire combine! And AGCO isn't completely ignoring us either as some may think. Dan's feeder drum shocks are now standard equipment - they started out as a mod. Extended cyl bars into the discharge are available through AGCO - we run them in our R52. Maybe the same mentality that causes the "green underwear" guys to keep buying green paint, also causes them to keep running the same ol' stock combines with their quirks without questioning why they are doing what they are doing and trying to change things for the better. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying All Deere or Axial guys are nothing but drones who ignore grain puking out the back, high power requirements, roping tough bean stems, etc, but it makes me wonder sometimes! My opinion only, for what it's worth!

To Brandon: