Combines Why the AFX combinesIJ

You make an interesting point and I agree with you partially. They have pretty much perfected the 2388 in it's servicability and threshing and every other aspect involved with the combine. What you say about adding a bigger rotor, feeder house, etc. is a good idea, and I think that is what they are doing in the new AFX8010 (except for the bigger rotor). I don't think the overall size of the 2388 is capable of handling the improvements, it just wouldn't be a big enough frame. You would also have to beef up the axles to support the extra weight. There are a lot of similarities between the new CR's and the AFX's, alot due to the new management. But after riding around in a CR960, that is one hell of a combine and I am anxious to try out an 8010 to see how it compares. like you said, hopefully they aren't screwing things up too much for themselves and the combines will be a success.

After looking the CR and AFX combines over very closely at Husker Harvest Days, I came to the conclusion they are not very much alike at all. they may have the same engine. (so does a massey, gleaner,2388,etc,etc) same trany, same frame, rear end and seives but most of the rest is different. all belts and shafts on the CR hyd drive on the AFX. Single rotor and a cross flow fan on the 8010. they make look a little alike but under the skin they are a different animal. After riding in a AFX8010 a desireable animal. There's a lot to be scared of, but all things change. More than likely we will see more iveco engines not less as mother Fiat needs all the cash she can find. We all love our 2388's but the fact is it was designed in the 70's, improved for 25 yrs, and probly time to be replaced.

Sorry to dissapoint you. But CNH is still on a down spiral. NH has not sold the combines this year, they were planing on, as told by NH employees. I don't know how it is in your country, but around here the red dealers keep closing their doors, while green is prevaling. We have tried for two years to switch to red, but the dealers say they can't handle that size of deal and CASE corp. doesn't want to help them. So after trying another brand unsuccessfully we're back at green. And I am afraid this is what the world is going to be in the future if things don't change drastically. CNH has a poor marketing here, while there is a 1.5 year waiting list on a CR in the UK, they're piling up at the plant in Grand Island. WhyIJ At the same time JD is gaining ground here and in Europe, too. Who is going to buy the 8010. The vast majority of CASE operators are still pushing 8 row corn heads. Compare that to JD. I could go on, but enough for now on this sad story.

Speaking of the 2388, what happened to "If it ain't broke, don't fix itIJ" Bigger is not always better. Have you looked at the sticker price on the AFX_CRIJ I'm planning to keep the 2188 for quite some time yet!

Dakota, I like to read what you write and all and think your a nice guy,.........but I think you wrong on this. It may look like that way at your place but where I live New Holland and Case do good. It has a lot to do with dealers. Good dealers sell a lot, no matter what brand. A lot of John Deere people have Case quad track tractors here. It's a shame you have no choice where you live, I hope that never happens here as I don't know what I would talk with my neighbors about anymoreIJ You are looking at this CNH thing all wrong, kind of like the glass half full, not half emptyIJ Take care, Ilnh

In our area some tried the JD rotor and now with 700+ hours need to rebuild. They are moving back to the axial flow or CR. We have a strong Agco dealer thats doing very good selling the new MF rotors.

We've had the same experience with the JD rotor and going back to walkers.

It doesn't matter how I look at it, we can't buy red or yellow combines here, because they're simply not offered as needed and as JD does.

You mention going up to a 36" rotor, however, there is a major problem with that. Rotary combines use centrifugal force to separate the grain from the crop mass once it is threshed out. The centrifugal force is directly proportional to the velocity squared DIVIDED by the radius, so the larger the rotor, the less centrifugal force there will be, and separating losses will become more of a problem.

Point taken, but is a 30" dia rotor the best tradeoff. And if it is, what about just jumping the hp on the 2388 some more and beefing up the components necessary to support it. Not that there is anything wrong with the 2388. It's just that it appears that CNH brought out the AFX because they wanted more capacity in a Red combine, and I think most sane people can agree that the AFX is no longer a logical continuation of the axial flow line, but rather a bastardized attempt at fitting a single rotor in a New Holland shell. (Yes I know there are major differences between the CR and AFX, but If you look past the single rotor, the AFX is much more like the CR than the 2388. This makes it seem more like a single rotor New Holland machine than a true (IH) axial flow.) This all gets back to if it aint broke don't fix it. The axial flow is a good machine. It seems that capacity is the only excuse that CNH can give for the AFX8010, and it is my firm belief that the same capacity could easily be had in an updated, larger axial flow. This leads me to belive that ignorant New Holland or possible Fiat management chooses to ignore the facts, and ignore the sales, and ignore the history of the lines and charge ahead with the New Holland designed platform while eventually scrapping the IH machines and the things that made them great. They then believe that they can sell the same machine under two different names and keep all of the old IH customer base. This train of thought is foolish. The only reason that CaseIH was able to continue selling machines to the old IH customer base is that they were selling the old IH machines. The IH customer base could overlook that 4 letter word on the hood, but buying a different machine with their name on the hood was not going to fly. Don't belive me, look at the red '94 series CaseIH tractors. They practically had to give them away to make room for the Magnums. The old Case tractors were good tractors in their day, but the IH faithful didn't want them. I belive that you will see the same thing once the true axial flow machines are no longer produced, the IH faithful will not want the AFX. Brand loyalty is deep rooted, and will not die easily. Just look at these boards and how many times people get into brand x is better than brand y pi$$ing matches. Some people say that IH is dead, but, fact is, the legacy lives with the machines, and the Axial flow, Magnum, and IH row unit still exist today. Also, the steiger legacy lives. The Case legacy still lives in the form of a backhoe. These are only shreds of a once great existance, but as soon as the machine is gone, the legacy will die. Mark my words, axial flow owners will not forgive CNH management if their machine is scrapped in '06 and replaced by a bastardized New Holland called the AFX.