Combines Can I use P3 reverse instead of F2 barsIJ

[NDDan]

I went and studied your plan today and I can't see why it won't work at least as good if not noticably better than F2 bars. I've heard some talk of different bars than F2 that have rasp all the one way or the other but most will take same amount of modifing that you are in for. I assume you are talking corn and soybeans mainly. I also assume you have wide rasp bars and good concave with every other wire removed from the low narrow wire versions. If this will be first run with every other wire removed from seperator grate you may want to hold off on second row of stationary rasp bars. Maybe just get them built and ready to throw in if needed. Hope your plans work out for you. Good luck

 

[ahbecalm]

800 acres corn, 130-160 acres soybeans per year. We bought the R50 5 years ago. At that time I had Siscoe's metal clinic rebuild the rotor bars and concave. He grinds down every other rasp, then builds up the remaining rasps with carbide. Standard spacing is 7_16", I now have 7_8".(Aftermarket corn bars have 3_4" spacing.)That year I loaded the machine dropping the tach to the recomended 2500 RPM, yield monitor indicated 1600 b_hr. but 4 bu_a out the back. I'd rather modify the combine to acheive near zero loss.In soybeans I run near 0 clearance with very few splits. With RoundupReady beans I will also be putting in 2 concave filler bars this year. last year I removed every other wire from the concave. This year I'm removing every other wire from the seperator floor. last year I installed 3_4"X1 1_2" flat stock bolted to the cage above the grate between the helicals which reduced loss by 1 bu_a. This year I'll remove those flat stock bars and install the reverse bars on the grate at 7 o'clock.

 

[tbran]

Yes, the F concave bars were a step in removing the reverse bars and controlling loss, we have since found more agressive bars work better and don't really consume the HP as reverse bars do.

 

[ahbecalm]

Please excuse my confusion, for weeks I didn't understand the reference to the "stop sign" until I looked at the octagonal rotor bearing plate. Now I "get it". Are you refering to F cylinder rasp bars bolted to the seperator floorIJ As a means to disrupt the residue mat to release grainIJ Do you put "more aggressive bars" on the floor or rotorIJ 2 years ago to stir the mat I used the alternate rotor bar configureation in my manual with 10 reverse bars, the previous year I had 2. The bu_a vs. hp load stayed the same. The problem was broken cobs with the 10 reverse bars. I'll now use some of those reverse bars on the floor and install all forward on the rotor. I'm not sure about removing 2 bars completely on a 3 bar row with the center bar doing both threshing and seperating. I'll ask Weltch Imp. in Redwood Falls, MN for a few used P3 bars, Modern Farm in Sauk Center only had P1. Sorry for being so long in the tooth, some readers don't read shorthand. I'm still learning.

 

[Tom_Russell]

Why dont you post your questions again at the top of the page. I am having the same questions and hope one of the others will reply. Where are you locatedIJ I am in Mcleod County a few miles NW of Glencoe.

 

[NDDan]

I think we all though you knew what F2 bars were. The F2 bars are a rasp bar that bolts in place of channel concave bar. Prior to 1972 the Gleaners had a closed concave and you would install as many channel bars as you needed to accomplish proper amount of thresh. The rasp bar has rasp going each way like you originally described and were used in place of a channel bar in some conditions. The F2 isn't the only old conventional that had these bars as option but it is the one the Tim (tbran) found on his parts shelf when he first installed them and the name stuck. The other sizes of combines used different lengthes for the width of concaves varied. Tim would of likely picked a rasp bar with all rasps the same way if he had found one. The F2 bars fit and worked well with little to no moding so it was a good choice but your idea of cutting a P3 reverse bar and setting down on seperator grate wires may be even better. I hope that clears up the F2 rasp bar for you. I can't hardly believe that the 10 reverse bars didn't kill the machine. It likely would have in any other crop other than corn unless it was super hot and super dry. I'm somewhat glad to hear you didn't cure a loss with heaps of reverse bars for I've been there to. I find your better off flowing straw nice and smoothly. I find a stationary rasp bar to work better at releasing crop from mate of material. I would also prefer a bar like that over seperator grate for separation. I find in some of them crops that a seperator grate will roll crop which traps seeds and or grind up crop overloading shoe. If your other question was about leaving bars off over concave I would not worry to much for I've heard of guys threshing corn, beans, and wheat with only four rows of cylinder bars installed on complete rotor. I hope that all made sense. Catch ya later

 

[ahbecalm]

I hate to repeat myself, posting the questions again would more likely be confusing. In the pictures of the hypermoded cage (amongst the straw) I recognize the conventional cylinder rasp bar. We also had a C2 years ago, so I also know what a concave channel iron looks like. I read a reply earlier about using a P1 reverse bar which sounde like a good idea. I called Modern Farm to ask for a used one, none on hand but they did have P1 forwards. When I laid one in the cage I saw forward is always forward, also the same pitch as the helicals. I read the advice to weld reverse bars together to make a mailbox post. I already have one of those so I looked at cutting one down to size for the floor. If anyone would like details of the problems I ran into, I'll post them. I live 6 miles NE of Rice, or 21 miles NE of St. Cloud. As for reverse bars bogging the motor, every other tooth cut out leaves a 7_8" spacing for residue to go without getting pinched. With 2 or 10 reverse bars, if I load the engine in corn, I can hit 1600 bu_hr. But I see no point to that. One truck dumping-on-the-go can't keep up hauling one mile. I also use a turbo boost guage (10 psi = 1,000 bu_hr, 16 psi = 1,600 bu_hr.),when I start unloading, the boost increase is barely noticable. Whereas I've heard IH rotories don't have enough power left to run the unloader and harvest corn at the same time. My trick there was to use a smaller drive sprocket and larger driven sprocket on the unloader. If my issues are still unclear I can post a new message.

 

[NDDan]

I went to see picture you were talking about over in P3 hyper mods. The rasp bar you see there is the F2 CONCAVE rasp bar (not cylinder bar). I think your idea of cutting a wide rasp P3 cylinder bar and fitting down onto seperator grate sounds like a fine idea. Some guys have cut leeding edge from P1 reverse bars and fastened directly to cage inbetween helicals and or fastened to belly of P1 system if no helicals are fastened to bottom. I have taken old flat rasp bars from many brands of old combines and fastened to cage. Your P3 bars are likely to high to fasten directly to cage but may be about right if you fasten down onto grate wires. I hope I'm clearing up what you are wondering and if not please ask. Take care

 

[RamRod]

In corn only, with ,97 R72, I am having slight corn losses with the straw, but have the loewen replacement sep grate that is all open cage outer sheet material and fast pitch helicals and sunny II rotor. Would it work to add a p3 reverse bar to the 7 oclock position to release seeds from strawIJ Would I need only a half or 3_4 inch key stock insteadIJ Would any of these need to be removed for soybeansIJ I get zero bean losses without anything in there now. Thanks for any comments. I do nothing but corn and soybeans.

 

[NDDan]

I think a P3 bar will stand up way to high on your cage material seperator grate. You can and I have fastened old flat rasp bar to grate material where you described. If you need more or want rasp bar to move more as you adjust that seperator grate (which you can do on '97 or newer machines) you should fasten toward rear of cage material type grate. I don't know what your idea of keystock will do but I'd prefer rasping the straw as opposed rolling or triping it over keystock. Rasp bar will likely not hurt you in the least way for soybeans. I sure do like a seperator grate made of cage material and I'm finding more and more operators in many crops getting by great with it. loewen has grate made of cage material for the prior '97 machines also but old grate needs to be cut out to bolt in new one. I have smoothed out many seperator grates by welding wire pieces on top of every other wire which does similiar trick to cage material. I got to be careful about bragging to much about cage material seperator grate for some areas likely have better luck with grate material. Gleaner has got closer with the high wide wire seperator grate which I would definitely prefer over the low narrow wire. Anyway maybe someone else has found a better low profile rasp bar that they could mention. I have cut leeding edge from P1 reverse bars to fasten down flat on cage. If I was to try improve on that I would likely cut out every other rasp. Good luck