Combines is this a problem elsewhereIJIJIJ

Would that be Green's ImplementIJ Did they well to Ziegler or ButlerIJ

That would be interesting and disappointing, I just spoke with them last week about purchasing some year end upgrades for my planter, and they mentioned corporates ongoing support for the AGCO tractor and Gleaner combine. The bottom line remains, if AGCO is to be successful in North America, it will be with Orange tractors and Silver combines; regardless of what Von Richenhagen and Andy Beck want to believe. This company is still Robert Ratliffs creation.

You couldnt ask for a better dealership to do business with than Ziegler. We have been doing business with Ziegler for the past 30 years and have found them to be a first-rate dealership. Ziegler parts dept is top shelf in my book and their on-the-farm servicing is fast and efficient. What else can you ask for in an equipment dealershipIJ True, they arent a local dealer but they usually ship parts from one of their stores the same day and most of the time we have them the next morning. Merry Christmas.

I agree Tom. We have a Cat tractor and working with them has gone well for us too. Ziegler is building a new store in Mankato. Will be very nice for us.

Thats almost walking distance for you, Brian. How lucky can a guy be!

I agree as well that Butler_Ziegler have superb service departments and strong parts departments. I also farm with some JD implements and get trememdous service from my local JD dealer; with that in mind I would not endorse a large JD franchise taking over a very reputable AGCO dealer, nor do I want to harvest with a lexion. I think it is tragic to see what appears to be a minority contingent in upper management in Duluth trying to push out the Orange and silver. These same execs have little_none to do with the huge risk that Robert Ratliff, John Shumejda and others took to make AGCO the unlikely success story that it is.

that would be butler and ive heard greatly varying oppinions on both butler and ziegler the buttler owner i've been told is an arrogant *****le that likes to pat his own back a lot i was told that he came right out at the meeting with the greens employees and said that he never talks to employees ive also been told that butler refuses to sell challenger combines because "we've made a committment to the lexion brand" one of my biggest concerns is .... where will i have to go to get versatile parts bueller jerked the dealership from richland county because they sell new holland and gave it to greens last year.... how will that play outIJIJIJ i think i'm going to approach this deal in a very guarded manner may have to go red and green even though i bleed orange

Is it a problemIJ Change is universal and constant, particularly in the world of farm machinery. I agree that you won't find any better caliber people to work with than Tom, Randy, and the folks at Greens. When you look at what's happening with the JD and CaseIH dealer organizations, they are consolidating as well, and big time. Titan continues to get larger and stronger on the CIH side, and JD dealers are banding together and single-store locations are going to be a thing of the past; the handwriting is on the wall. I'm not about to debate whether it's good or bad. It is happening and there is little chance that I see to stop it. If AGCO is to thrive and prosper in North America, as we all want it to and as John, Ed Swingle, and Mr. Ratliff (among others) all gave so much to see, the AGCO dealer organization too will have to evolve to match up with what CIH and JD offer. The Cat dealerships being what they are (well financed and healthy enough to tackle this consolidation) and many (not all I realize) of the AGCO dealerships being what they are (many have no clear succession plans in place and find it tough to carry high-priced inventory of parts or wholegoods),makes the scenario of Cat dealers acquiring AGCO dealers a natural fit and, in my opinion, a necessary one for AGCO's long term health. That is, I think, provided that the Cat dealers continue to promote certain existing AGCO product lines. I believe there is a place for the AGCO combines, but it's going to take some revamping from AGCO and a major push from a dealer organization to get them to double-digit market share. I think that could happen with the right axial machine. As for orange tractors, I don't know how much longer they are feasible. I like Allis-Chalmers and White; they were two great companies with great heritage. But, looking at the market today, I just don't see too many red and green guys, regardless of how good an AGCO tractor is and ever will be, who are going to be willing to drive an orange tractor, just because of the color. It's silly, I know, but there has to be some crazy reason why so many drive JD tractors, and it certainly isn't because of superior engineering. The same tractor in Cat yellow or MF red would be a much easier pill for said individual to swallow, and that is why I would promote those 2 brands intensively in North America and try to eliminate some of the confusion.

Agree with most of what you said. I firmly believe that AGCO scored big-time getting the Cat dealership network when they bought the Cat tractors. All the other comapanies are going through major dealer consolidation; AGCO just leap-frogged the process. The Cat dealership network is the climax of where the industry is headed anyway. It is just a matter of time (not much time either) before a state like ND is covered by 1-2 green or red dealerships. Certainly do not have to like it but I do not see how it can be stopped. Just not enough Hurtt's or t-brans in the world that are willing to poor their whole life into these business's for a relatively small economic return.

If the CAT organization is the answer, why after 5 years with the full challenger line there is neglible market penetration with Challenger wheeled tractorsIJ If the Butlers and Zieglers were serious about competing with Titan_RDO in the Ag business, they would be consolidating existing AGCO_Gleaner dealers as separate businesses from construction and likely see considerable more success. Current orders to Hesston for combines are 75% Gleaner and 25% divided up for Challenger Massey. Tractor orders for North America are 1 AGCO for 1 Massey_Challenger. Individually 2:1. (Source: AGCO Marketing, Duluth) While the economies of scale may not be there for the smaller operations, how long is AGCO going to continue pouring cash into the Challenger piggy bank with no returnsIJ Most ag dealers that I have spoken to this year have had record profits, even the smaller operations. When the Challenger business was launched, the lofty prediction was $500M by 2004, it is now 2007 and still not there. Challenger is perceived -like it or not- as a high horsepower tracked tractor and now large 4WD product. Trying to organically grow a new brand from ground up as Challenger is trying to do below the high horsepower tracked and 4WD is difficult at best and nearly impossible. Almost every farmer knows and recognizes the Orange tractor_Silver combine, just as every farmer recognizes Green_Yellow. It just needs to be marketed properly.