Combines Rasp bars and concave function explination

[ahbecalm]

Yes it's time to replace the snapping roll blades, and the stripper plate rods look bow legged. overall I'm seeing the whole ear with husk snapped from the stalk. Wasn't the purpose of the rasp bar to agitate the matIJ I might also be under loading, I estimate I'm running 50%-60% engine capacity. Could takin' it easy be a big part of the problem hereIJ Thing is, we had the same performance 6 years ago when the head had less wear and the 2 reverse bars were in. (820 acres per year corn, 250-350 acres soy beans)

 

[Tom_Russell]

We have velvetleaf in my part of the world but there is only one guy who talks about button weed that I am aware of and I havent asked him what it looks like or what it is. I was at a university weed identification seminar when someone brought up velvetleaf. After talking about ways to eradicate it, a woman in the group said it is good for hemorrhoids. Of course, that brought a huge laugh from everyone. Yes, you might say that using weeds to do a certain personal task is somewhat of a local thing.

 

[Harvester]

When you had the reverse bars in, did you also have half the wires pulled from the separator grateIJ Pull half the wires from the concave and concave grate as wellIJ The unmodified separator grate is notorious for plugging with cobs which will result in serious rotor loss. It is certainly possible that running faster could reduce rotor loss, but the converse may also be the case, running faster may make rotor loss even worse. The better the corn, the more time it is going to take in the processor to get it separated out. Trash ingestion is also a big variable. The rasp bar will certainly provide agitation, but in only one place per 360 degree revolution. The rotor knife concept agitates throughout all 360 degrees of rotor rotation. The cage is perforated 360 degrees, so separation should be maximized 360 degrees.

 

[ahbecalm]

Thanks for the reply Dan. Near the end of our season we removed the top 2 bars also known as the green kit. No joy. No I didn't plug the wire holes, I can see that could be part of my problem. The year after we got it I ordered a new set of chrome bars using my parts manual and bought through Modern Farm in Sauk Center the closest Gleaner parts dealer. I reinstalled the new bars where the old bars were. They fit perfectly, evenly spaced. Yes the number one bar ends about 8" from the seperator grate. I put the wedge shaped filler in the corner and extended number 2 to the seperator grate. Useing 68" pitch in place of standard pitch bars in number one and number 2 position as your earlier message to me detailed is a good idea. I measured my pitch at 45". Did the 52 use the same barsIJ I read the 55 uses 40". Does the 55 use the same barsIJ I keep hearing each series is a little different than the prior model. I have popped the rock gate a few times, so yes rechecking clearance is a good idea. When we got it there were extra washers where they shouldn't have been, totally compressing the springs to almost solid. Siscoe's Metal Clinic straightened, built up and true bored the concave,I reset to manual's specs. 6 years ago. It still looks straight by visual appearance. We unload on the go. I adjust my ground speed so the truck can keep up (700-820 bu_hr). When I use the tach and load to 2580 rpm my MicroTrak GrainTrak indicates 1400-1500 bu_hr in most years, 1300-1400 this year.We had immature corn this year in central MN. I normally go by a turbo boost gauge. Whether I had 2, 10 or no reverse bars the boost I run gave the same bu_a. What did increase engine load 25%-40% was replacing 4 rasp bars in the seperator area with discharge paddle gussets . We tried running with those 4 positions blank, less engine load but no improvement in grain loss. I can see not plugging the holes as my biggest problem in seperating soy beans. I stopped in Wilmar to talk to the Agco dealer. He's primarily a Massey dealer. He said Masseys use more rotor to concave clearance and more revolutions to seperate, resulting in whole cobs (yes even this year) and less grain damage. They thresh grain with grain, not grain with steel.They get much more than twice the life from their bars than Gleaner. Now I see taking advantage of my wider spaced rasp bars and running 0.01" clearance is another problem I created. My result was unshelled pods in the hopper AND more splits. Too late to try any changes this year. If we keep it another year I'm sure it'll be better. Question is can it be as good as those 2 1999 R72s for sale aboveIJ From the improvements brochures the Wilmar dealer showed me, I'm thinking a 1998 or newer 62 or 72. Next question, are the R52s or the R55s as efficient as the long processorsIJ The thought of working on or inside a green machine is not good. Masseys have even fewer drive components and greater main compenent longevity than Gleaner.(BUT STICKER SHOCK)

 

[ahbecalm]

last winter I removed the reverse bars, installed all foreward.When the reverse bars were in, the thresher concave had half the wires out, but all the seperator wires were in. I removed half the sep. wires last winter too. Dan pointed out I need to install plugs where the wires were. I did look on one damp day to see gobs of soy bean stems hanging from the sep. grate. On dry days there were very few hanging in there.

 

[NDDan]

The bars are different from R40-50 to R42-52-55 only in that bolt pattern and length of some helicals are little different. Cage was somewhat reconfigured but the helical pattern from one to the other would basically mirror one another. I'm not even sure exactly how they figure pitch. I would believe it would be the length of cage it would cover if the helical went 360 degrees around. I think the only time I have seen any of the helicals refered to in inches of pitch is the 68" pitch kit for large P3s. I am basically sure the standard pitch of small and large P3 helicals is the same so in your thoughts of material making it from beginning to end faster in the small P3s you would be spot on. like I said in earlier post we need steep pitch all the way threw the large P3 to match the small P3s. Did you put in a boost pressure gauge or are you talking the 300RPM tack that Gleaner used to give you a guide where rated RPM is. Funny you didn't notice mega power consumption with the 10 reverse bars and funnier yet why the gussets seemed to take so much power!!! You'll see extended life in your rasp bars once you complete helical trick. You may want to get some filler bars in concave and you may be able to run slower and a wider concave clearance for your soybeans. I wouldn't want to compare anything to Massey for I don't know them at all but I have to wonder how they could get twice the life from there bars. Gleaner runs a 25" cylinder and 27" cage. Do know what the Massey runs. Concave clearance can't be a lot different from one make to the other and I wonder with Gleaners narrower one we could run wider but with sufficiant filler bars. If Gleaner ran some of them super narrow wire concaves for small grain and very wide for other crops we wouldn't need to be talking filler bars. I bet Gleaner will end up going with a 24" cylinder for the corn belt shortly for it will add that extra bit of cage clearance to give the corn cobs more room to flow and not get broken. I have heard more than once that it is best to keep machine full to minimize loss. I would imagine if you have a 6 row head you can get there. You are likely right on that large P3s are more forgiving on setup than small P3s. I know that because I know that most large P3s out there have so much more untouched capacity built in and not being tapped into. I better get off of hear for now. Have a good one.

 

[Harvester]

I would reinstall the 2 reverse bars and use them in conjunction with the wires removed from separator grate you now have. You should be pleased with the results. R52 running this way can run a 6R30 cornhead comfortably and confidently at 4.5 mph in 200 bu_A dry corn, to give you an idea. If you need more than that, you may have to look at an R62, friend. Regards.

 

[NDDan]

OK I find where they print 40" pitch for helicals and it is the same for the R40-50-42-52-62-72-65-75 and very likely 60 and 70s with P3s. More helicals and different bolt patterns are main differences. Removing the top short helicals on the small P3s will act the same as lesser pitch helicals. Material moves toward discharge very little to not at all without the help of helical bars. Given the extra length of large P3s I'm even more convinced the the 68" pitch all the way threw should work in most situations. We have many set up like that with no problems but I think the main thing on them large P3s is to prevent helicals from dumping crop back onto feed chain (at least the 2nd and 3rd from gearbox). If you had large P3 with all 68" pitch you could allways slow down flow in same manner as small P3s by removeing a couple short pieces of helical at top of seperator side if needed. That would be last resort for me. Stationary pegs similiar to what the old P1s had with maybe only half the pegs in them seems to be showing its merits. What did you say you did to cylinder barsIJ Cut down every other rasp and built up the remaining ones and was that with the 1_2" or 3_4" rasp barsIJ Thanks. Take care

 

[ahbecalm]

I had the 1990 small grain rasp bars (7_16") rebuilt by Siscoe, cut down every other rasp (result being 7_8"),same as Trimpe modification. Siscoe then builds remaining rasps up with carbide, and matches pairs by weight. From what I'm seeing on the board, other small P3 owners have less losses than I do, and what Rod told me about Massey putting Gleaner corn bars in (Gleaner being a lot more aggressive than the Massey) I'm thinking my bars are too aggresive in the rotary.The bars I'm using might be so agressive they're augering the material through. They worked a lot diferent in the M2.By way of comparison Rod showed me the 2 diffetent bars. This year Massey put in Gleaner P3 chromed corn rasp bars. Previous bars looked exactly like P1 rotor rasp bars. Thanks for your patience Dan. My older brother (the financial manager) is so fed up with the 3-4 bu_a losses he's ready to pay $60,000 to repalce this machine to save $6,000 in corn, not to mention beans. I may have started the whole problem by putting in the wrong rasp bars. Trial and error testing is to put in Gleaner corn bars next year, along with the pieces of 68" helicals, and plugging the holes.