Combines Thoughts on Agco CNH

[John]

And what has happened to the old Allis Chalmers Industrial when they were sold to Fiat to become Fiat-Allis, looks very similar to CIH when Fiat got involved in the line. Does this mean that Fiat is the problemIJ Fiat seems to run an industry, like they built cars, CHEAP! And CHEAP never has sold well in the Ag or Industrial equipment lines. Quality has always been the deciding factor in a purchase in these industries, not price.

 

[AGCO_AllIS__MAN]

I think AGCO buying the Steiger tractor plant and line would be great. If it happens it will benefit AGCO and Steiger because Steiger is the best in the bussiness for one and it will cut cost with Agco because Agco will make for CIH and for NH, and will not have all the product developing and engineering cost making for more profits and market share.I would like to see Steiger under AMERICAN ownership again and paint green again like it should have stayed in the first place and see a AGCO 4x4 with a look of the DT series the former 9700 series tractor as you all know and have the tractor for the CAT dealers for those who dont want tracks painted yellow with cat motors of course.You have to look at this also because cat will make engines for the new DT series when the frame is widened to take the cat motor whenever the AGCO engineers get it completed. You have so many possabilities with Agco because of all the product lines they own and with Agco being the only Farm equipment man. making money it only seems the only smart thing to happen is for Steiger to be owned by Agco and have joint vens with CIH and NH. I want to see Agco gain more of the market and compete with Deere and give them a uperhand for once like Allis chalmers should have done if they were not buried by Deutz.I am a Agco fan for one and want to see more products by them,and to see a gap filled by the 4x4 market with them hopefulily buying Steiger they could have a orange 4x4 again.Hope it happens.Agco nneds to buy back what is left of Fiat Allis which isnt if any and compete against Deere and CIH and NH in the construction market. I am dreaming ,i guess with this one but it would be Alsome to have a orange crawler again with a better drivetrain and engine ,but with cat and agco in ventures together i dont see this happening because cat is the best in the constuction bussiness and for them to supply agco with a engine and drive train would be competing against themselfs.

 

[johnboy]

I disagree with you there john based on our experiences as we owned a Fiat 955 crawler that used 2 1_2 gallons of diesel per hour compared to our D4Esa that never went under 5 gallons per hour,the Fiat outpulled the cat easily and the Cat cost us far more to operate.We also bought a 90 90 Fiat wheel tractor for hay work and some tillage.Besides normal services all we fixed besides a faulty dowl pin on the gearstick was a waterpump ($125) a new hydraulic oil pump ($175) and a battery in over 6 000 hours.I just wish that some of our so called good coloured equipment was that good.

 

[John]

Remember when Hesston tried tractors(Fiat)IJ Had a local dealer here and they wouldn't sell and the few he did sell have all been salvaged. They were an all around poorly designed and built machine in comparison to CIH, Deutz Allis, JD, and White of the same age and size. The dealer has since gone to the Massey line with much happier customers. I worked on Fiat cars in the 70's and Hesston tractors and was not impressed with the Fiat machines. Is Fiat-Allis even still operating in the USIJ All I see is old Fiat dozers(AC design) working here.

 

[johnboy]

John I live in Australia so I can't comment to much about the Heston_Fiat times but the seventies were a long time ago.When we first got the 90 90 there were things on it that I thought were a little strange but once I got used to them it was fine.There are lots of older Fiats in the cane country and if those guys can't kill them they must have been okay.The 90 90 spent a lot of time working side by side on hay jobs with another tractor model that was bought at the same time and from the beginning that tractor had problems. The owner had enough when at 3 000 hrs the front axel broke and could not be fixed for a month,the dealer talked him into trading for a newer model but that tractor still gave silly problems. He next bought a Fiat.We have owned two of the new Masseys,6270 and 6290 plus a NH TM135 and these are good and comfitable tractors but for shear reliability we cound not go past that 90 90 Fiat.john

 

[Bob]

Why go to Agco and have to make all those decisions. when you could go to JOHN DEERE and make just one. Its still U.S.A. owned that I no.

 

[John]

Bob, our county government had your thought process and went from Cat and Dresser maintainers several years ago and has it ever been a fiasco with the light weight Deere machines. For road maintainers, Deere is by far the poorest and weakest excuse in industrial machines. The County this past year has had a policy change and as each Deere breaks it is replaced with a non-Deere unit. It was costing more to keep the light weight, low powered Deeres going than what other brands cost to purchase. Our county maintained roads where the Deere machines aren't are already showing a marked difference in snow removal and general grading with the same operators.

 

[Harvester]

Exactly! Why bother with independent thoughtIJ Just follow the mainstream and believe everything your JD dealer tells you. And like a flock of sheep following a shepherd, nobody deviates, for fear of being (gasp) independent and thinking for themselves. My gosh, what fun would that beIJ! For one, John Deere does not make the best in all product lines. To believe that any one brand does is pure lunacy. Sure, they make a pretty good lawn mower, manure spreader, and forage harvester, but when it comes to tractors, combines, hay equipment, planters, and tillage, it sure pays to look around. What AGCO has managed to do is combine companies that were top-notch specialists in their line, whether it be Hesston in hay tools, Gleaner and MF in combines; Allis, White, and MF in tractors, or White in planters, and now Cat in track tractors, AGCO has been able to acquire industry leaders in various market segments and retain the brand identification and reputation for leadership of the brand. And yes, AGCO is American owned, as is JD. I guess AGCO probably isn't for you if you have to have everything one matching color. Boy, I thought my wife was picky and particular until I talk to some farmers. Adding another red or even perhaps blue to the line would be great, that way AGCO would really have a color for everyone. But then again, perhaps CNH isn't as tempting as we'd like to believe. If AGCO had to assume all of CNH's enormouns debt load when acquiring a part or the company in its entirety (doubtful),the deal starts to look bad for AGCO. They didn't get to where they are by making stupid deals.

 

[Kaye2]

Thats funny you should mention the JD graders, our road commission had a 770BH and they couldn't keep head gaskets in it(even with operator changes through it's life cycle),the Cat machine running out of one of our other garages had over ten thousand hours with nothing more than maintenance. Is head gasket repair "maintenance" on a DeereIJ

 

[RD]

Sorry AGCO-Allis Man Duetz didn't bury allis they were broke for a reason. Bad decision making the attitude of if we make it they will buy it is BS jusy look at the WONDERFUl 7000 series tractors you can't give them away. My friend bought two 7060s last year for $7000(not each $7000 FOR BOTH)Jokingly said he'd have a parts tractor just in case. Not so funny when trans junked out of the nicer one. Too bad for Allis as they were finally on the right track with the 8000 series. As for combines I loved my N series I had a N5,N6,N7 all were good machines good design, needed a little better separation system but once you had it set it was good until conditions changed. However............... Dealers attitudes suck! Our dealer would not order a new combine with the overhead unloading auger he said it took too much horsepower (300+HP Cummins...BS!) He just wants to sell farmers the unloading augers and tubes when they get torn off. I went JD 9600 2 falls ago (always ran JD corn head)havn't been sorry a minute. The overhead unloader allows us to unload on the go, Here the ground is too uneven to do it with the turret style. Switched to a 25 ft flex head price couldn't be beat saved $15,000 VS equally equiped same hour and age Gleaner and saved $6,000 on the head.