Combines Thoughts on Agco CNH

Drop me an e-mail sometime. You never know where your path might lead you. I love to talk about Sweet Allis.

I must respectfully disagree on the Case Purchase of the IHC Ag business. IH was essentially out of date productwise and just ready for Chapter 11. J.I. Case was making money and had leading edge technology in their tractors. About the only thing they achieved was getting a combine. Other than the Axial flow, they inherited some of the poor management from IH that should have been let go. look whats left of the IH pieces now, combine is now a red NH, planters and drills are going to flexicoil, tillage is all gone to DMI and the heart of all Case Tractors is the Case_Cummins engine design that was in progress when IH was showing the ag world how to lose large sums of money. We used to be all Case and Allis, but now it is all AGCO. Unfortuneately, the weasels that J.I. Case hired from IH convinced them to use that "bleeding" red color. We will stay with orange. Now the bleeding has included the blue as well. How sad. These former IH lovers should kiss the ground out front of 700 State Street, Racine WI, because without that bailout, there would be no red paint at all, maybe Deutz could have pickup up the line - too bad they didn't.

I'll agree farmers didn't want air cooled engines I've got one 7145 DA tractor and one water pump with deutz power. I like them now, but was really concerned when I bought the tractor, everyone that had one said they were good but was still afraid of the unknown. If AC had contracts they could of sued the pants off of the gov. so that doesn't hold water. I agree if you buy out another company it is your duty to integrate the technology of both into one better machine. Unfortunatly sometimes all they do is buy out the competition. IE: why would Case IH buy DMIIJIJ to get better equipmentIJ Why not just build theirs betterIJIJ Nope just eliminate one of their competitors and probably lay off all of the union workers at their plant and keep that cheap labor out in Iowa(or wherever DMI is)

Have you tried to sue the Government when they owe you money and your money is tied up in products produced for themIJ And there was a time not so long ago that you could not sue the Government, called Governmental Immunity. Maybe you're too young to remember. My cousin is in a dispute for its seventh year with some government ground he farmed, lEGAl CONTRACT, and the government is refusing to honor their end of the contract. The legal costs are eating up everything, but hopefully this is going to make the government honor contracts with farmers. What happens when you don't honor your end of the contract with the GovernmentIJ The government in many cases comes in and locks you, your business and your bank accounts up(history and fact). The government can be found 100% wrong in the courts, but it has ruined your reputation, business and bank accounts. And the government is allowed to walk away and say "OOPS, I GOOFED" at your expense. But the government has the right(because of who they are) to change their mind and not honor any legal agreement. AC and IH lost huge amounts of money in contracts that the government defaulted on. Try that in your business and see how long you last. Remember the government has the right to change their mind at any moment, it's called politics. "Politics are rarely legal and many times not fair, its a politicians way to buy votes or get themselves out of a jam so they can stay in power." Right from a college Political Science text book. And why is it that if the government makes a financial mistake with you, they pay NO INTEREST or PENAlTY but let you make a mistake with them and you pay INTEREST and PENAlTY, taxes fall in that category. If the government GOOFS with too many citizens, they change the law to bail themselves out, you have to have seen that a few times or you are real young, or very naive. There are many documented facts of the Allis Chalmers and International Harvester collapses and where the money went or how it was lost.

if case was all that how come when the magnums were intoduced they were still the same tractor ih was getting ready to intoduce. Had a beefed up 88 series trans and other similare parts. how come the ih on new equip is bigger than the case. how come you can still see the IH in the CNH logo. AND YES THEY ARE All PAINTED RED NOT WHITE

You made the point yourself, IH could not introduce the tractor because they were broke. My point remains, J.I Case saved your lovely red color from oblivion. I have no problem with IH on their own, but trying to masquerade as IH with J.I Case money and operations is blasphemy. The magnum is NOT the tractor they were going to introduce, IH would not have used a Cummins engine. Why can it not be understood that IH created their own situationIJ Case didn't cause them to go broke - they only saved their sorry rear end. Next time your in Racine, pay Case Corporation a visit with a thank you.

First of all, it wasn't JI Case money that saved IH, does the word Tenneco sound familiarIJ And since we are making statements on the Gleaner page, do you realize that even AC was testing out-sourced engines, yup Cummins was one of them to reduce costs. And yes Deere has tested and uses Cummins. Companies look at the bottom line and cost to produce products. IH tested competitors engines all the time. If a product is as good and costs less to buy than internal produce they look at the profit margin. FUNK Transmissions are a current commodity, owned by Deere and used in many colors, cheaper to buy than internal produce. I know a man who worked for JI Case in Racine and states that JI Case was broke before AC or IH, Tenneco money revived JI Case from the coffin. Sorry to burst that bubble but you need to remember the Tenneco factor.

Yes, Tenneco was the parent company of JI Case since the late 60's, however, the purchase of IH was done THROUGH JI Case with backing from Tenneco, much as other corporate buyouts are currently handled today from subsidiary businesses. Regarding the CDC engine arrangement, Case and Cummins management signed a contract to develop this new engine which began appearing on skidsteers in about 1982. This was not a matter of testing different engines. In fact, this was a top secret joint venture during the first couple of years where CEO's of Case and Cummins were meeting at undisclosed locations to keep the lid on it (from Case History books). But, regardless of what actually happened, the diehards apparently still think IH is alive and well in the Ag business along with UFO's and Art Bell concepts. In the meantime, we will continue to farm with AGCO and watch CNH take pages from the old IH financial management "how to" guide.

Yup, the CDC development was brought about because JI Case didn't even have the cash to modify the 504 to modernize it so they went crawling to Cummins to get the financing and tech support to just stay in business and out-source their engines. JI Case was BROKE, Tenneco kept them in business and financed 100% of the IH purchase. look at the major changes in the Case product line after it was purchased by Tenneco. Tenneco bought and ran Case from the Case coffin, and Tenneco's Ag division purchased IH and combined it with the JI Case subsidiary. Most JI Case technology was scrapped when IH technology was purchased because the IH technology was much further advanced over Case. Tenneco bought IH to give a dying Case a jump-start again! Production numbers tell much of the history and JI Case was dead last for many years. That is on all Ag production.

We all know that IH was simply the most brilliantly managed company in the ag industry. With such grand ideas as putting 1086 transaxles in 1486 and 1586 tractors and wondering why they failedIJ Arguing with Unions over minor details while the company would lose $1B during the strike (1981) due to lost production. Squandering the lead they had over JD in the 1950's by falling far behind after the 4010, and not responding. Continuing to use 560 transmissions in 666 and 686 tractors built 20 years later (we owned one of them). But, obviously I stand corrected, IH lives stronger than ever building farm equipment, I just wasn't aware of it.