Combines GOTTA SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT

[Combine_Wizard]

STS, all modern combines still have their own strong or weak points. Yes, the engines have to grow with the separators, hydraulics, drive trains and so on. Rotaries take more power to operate than conventionals. I don't see any combines, regardless of color, to be failures. Overall, this technolog just gets better. I'd like to hear more about YOUR PERSONAl experiences with your John Deere rotary, too. By the way, Deere never actually said they would "never make a rotary." I also get tired of that dribble, way overstated and slightly misquoted. Basically, what Deere said, was that they would not produce a rotary until they could find it satisfactory to do so. That said, it really meant, "till they were pressured into it" or whatever. The fact is, that the John Deere rotary DOES exist, whether Big D chooses to call it such or not. Doublespeak and spin language is not going to change the physical configuration of the Models 9750 and 9760 one iota! Yes, I love John Deere combines! Yes, I hate politics and propaganda! I've seen the John Deere 9750, with my own eyes, harvest over 4,000 bushels per hour, in 240 bpa corn, with 2 grain wagons and a small fleet of semis at its bidding. That is what I call a memorable experience!

 

[Harvester]

Best post in the thread, Wizard. You are spot on that the demise of the 9700 had nothing to do with the machine's capabilities or incapabilities. Rather, it was just too big and expensive for the core of the combine market at the time, somewhat like the 590R lEXION is today. The two machines were_are, during their respective times, the undisputed kings of capacity by quite a margin. And both sold_sell in relatively small numbers compared to the smaller machines that are today's class 6 and class 7 machines. As a note of history to add to your tale of the legendary 9700, the research and development of that combine began in 1959 by Cockshutt, which became acquired by White in 1962. White continued the project. Remember, during this time of the 60s and right into the late 70s when the 9700 hit the market, White Farm Equipment was actually doing quite well. The 80s hit the company hard, primarily because of White Motor's ailing truck division and White's decision to borrow money from the profitable farm equipment division to cover the red ink of the White truck business. But that is a story for another day. Back to the combines. Prior to the 1986 sale of White combines to MF, Massey was developing their own rotor combine. The design was abandoned when the 9700 became available, as MF realized that the 9700 design was superior to what they had on the table. What, you may ask, happened to the original MF designIJ Well, it finally made it to production in 1999 as the JD STS. Yes, the MF design featured tines on the rotor, a nonconcentric cage, and a beater for feeding and rock protection (borrowed from the 9700). This was told to me by a MF guy who saw the blueprints of the rotor design (STS) from Massey back in the early 80s. I wholeheartedly back up your commendation of the White design which is the current 9790 MF, an awesome combine indeed! As for JD's statements about rotaries in the 80s, that's marketing talk, plain and simple. I participated in a conversation with one of the heads of JD Harvester Works a little over a year ago, in which he said, "it is amazing we (John Deere) were able to retain and even grow our market share through the 1990s with the conventionoal (Maximizer) combines, when it was so obvious to us and most others in the industry that the rotaries on the market were far superior." You can imagine that those of us in the discussion were speechless for a moment or two.

 

[Harvester]

New Holland is n1 in combine sales worldwide. ClAAS is n2.

 

[Big_Green]

Agco doesnt really exist around here other than the CAT branch so i will prolly never see a 9790.

 

[Big_Green]

BUllET ROTOR does that not equal rotaryIJ

 

[greenstrat]

Just not every part. gs

 

[Combine_Wizard]

Thank you, Harvester. I honestly never knew exactly whether WFE suffered such an issue from the corporate brass [just as Massey-Ferguson's combine division] or if it was simply the falling ag economy in general. Either way, the Model 9700 got the short end of the stick. As for its size, White was only regionally strong in combines, unlike the more continental Massey-Ferguson. Their [M-F] Model 760 was a giant leap forward and changed forever the method of hauling combines of any size, for the custom harvesters. It ushered in the age of the combine carrier or trailer. The Massey-Ferguson 760 made it. The John Deere 9600 made it. The Massey-Ferguson 9790 is making it, and so will the even larger lexion 590. Yes, I know some of those Deere personnel. They are good people, but are sometimes just too close to the tres to see the forest. Their closest competitor, and the one who's periodically moved ahead in the sales market by the quarter, is the red rotary combine. You know who I'm talking about. Hey, there's a new combine talk site. Come on over and have a look: http:__combineforums.proboards42.com_index.cgi Not as much traffic over there, yet, but it is growing. Hey, anytime, feel free to e-mail me, too, at Antheraea59[at]aol.com. I am always in the mood to "talk combines."

 

[Combine_Wizard]

I still believe that whatever is out there, is sufficient to keep the older, original 9700's and 8590's going. I also wonder just how many parts of the newer combines [current production] will also interchange. It's just enough to keep these machines in the field. I also know that not every single piece of the 8820's and such are still available as NOS, but there's still enough of them [and the 00 Series] in salvages to supply the balance. Finding a 9700 in a salvage is much harder, simply because they were not as abundant. Still, the 9700's overall simplicity is conducive to much off-market replacement parts from local machine shops.

 

[Combine_Wizard]

It does. I was being sarcastic [maybe you didn't catch on]. Deere has a ROTARY combine and has had it since 1999! Now whether they want to just come out and call a spade a spade, is up to them. Still, spin talk alone, will never change the combine. You've heard it all your life..."a rose by any other name, is STIll rose." Same with our John Deere rotary. BTW, I think they are getting better and if a better engine can be used quickly, Deere will make a very significant impact on the rotary market in 2-3 more years.

 

[Big_Green]

I was meaning that it think JD was dumb by calling it a Bullet Rotor when a few years ago the big ad said "It's Not A Rotary, It's Better" referring to the original STS.