Combines R85 and Sisu

Hey tbran, what engine are they going to use if not the Sisu. I was told from the plant they will be used next year. By the way Massey is going to start using the accelerator rollers: per combine plant, they ran experimental last year.

The Duetz motor was supposed to be revolutionary in the combine industry. We see where that went. As farmers we are creatures of habit. We want something that works, is of value and can be repaired quickly. I have heard good things about the Sisu and I can tell you good things about the Duetz powerplants. The Duetz worked however the cost of parts was detrimental too its value and the Duetz motor could rarely be repaired quickly. I don't know much about the Sisu however I would be very skeptical about parts supply and service of an engine that is made overseas. Is a Cummins perfectIJ Certainly not. Is a Deere or CatIJ Hardly. But in the test functionality, value and repairability I'd take a Cat, Cummins or Detroit engine every day. Take road tractors for example. Most are powered by Cat, Cummins or Detroit. They provide value and are extremely easy to get back together in very short order. The best motor in the world isn't worth a darn if it takes two weeks or more to get it back into the field. The 8.3 has been used by Case and now AGCO for over 15 years and its reliability has been tremendous in tractor and combine applications. The M11 has only been in Gleaners for close to 10 years and its performance has been awesome. Furthermore the M11 has spent countless miles in high hp road tractor applications with very good success. In terms of sleeve issues and electrolysis. This problem is caused by poor maintenance in 95% of the cases. most of these failures are because water is never checked or changed. The N14 is known for commonly logging 10,000 hours if the water is monitored annually, the injectors and valve train run every 1000 hours. Bring on the SISU, but give us a choice until the bugs are worked out. I trusted the "knowleageable experts" at AGCO when I bought my Duetz powered R62. I won't make that mistake again.

I am a cummins fan, but lets do the Sisu. I understand that Sisu is an agco company and also it is a very durable engine series. Have also heard that cummins is getting harder to work with. The Duetz was an excellent engine and we have had years of excellent service from them, but I understand the reason why they arent used anymore. Get over it. Times change and I think its time to change the combines over to the Sisu engine. Read up on Sisu, get some educated reading on the agcocorp site about it. Its a great engine and agco can build what the want and need and also not worry about having to get someone to build what they need.

it seems everyone has the inside scoop. truth is we wont know what is going to happen until it does. i was in Hesston a short time ago and the massey version was on hold then. a lot more work was going into the reduced diameter cylinder at that time. that was from the mouth of an engineer.......who really knows what we will see.

Isnt alot of cummins engines made overseas also and some of the cats are also.

good points. The Deutz was_is an excellent powerplant. The problem is they extract too much from us N.American folks to solve their inefficient company financial woes. Agco_duetz-allis could not control the parts costs. Deutz inporters could sell parts cheaper than Agco could buy them. They are not that expensive in Europe. In fact they are about at Cummins prices. The new 1011 oil cooled engines are over here in big n's and parts are not quite so bad now. Cavitational erosion can be somewhat prevented. Sleeve dropping cannot. We just did a Cat and earlier a Cummins in our rigs. The nature of the beasts. The Sisu is not a new engine. It was designed to power logging equipment in sub 0 weather and power units for desert fighting machines. Again, parts prices are now controlled in house. It is company mission statement to be at 'market price' , meaning competitive. We just tried to get one piston for a Detroit. Took a week. Everyone wanted to sell us a kit. I can tell you some really bad stories concerning Cummins and warranty issues that would not have been an issue with AGCO. In fact Agco even picked up pqrt of the tab that Cummins should have paid to make things 'right' with the customer. Yes everyone is less than perfect. Our point is being able to control our own destiny in our own industry rather than adapt a truck engine for a tractor, combine or other product. Your cautiousness is not without merit. We have been promised more than could be controlled or delivered in the past. This engine will become a 'value' in an engine. They, AGCO, will stake the future on it.

AS of right now, Agco_Sisu does not build an engine that meets the needs of the next size up to come harvester. Probably stay with Cummins at first but we are probably two years away so that could change. These new standards for off road diesels might cause some plans to change. Who knows for sureIJ Plans are that AGCO_Sisu will come in phases. There are some problems to be worked out on the rolls.

You also make some good points Tim.If someone wants a choice they have the Challenger line which I believe has a contract with Cat to use their engine (some Cat some Perkins) for the combines and tractors.Then they can see how good the service is.From what I read Cat doesn't care for the ag buisness very much.They will do what that have to but if someone isn't happy doing their job the results are not as good.

yawn, I need to turn in, letteman_leno's off, you are correct in my observation for what that is worth. Cat dealers are either hot or cold. Cat as a company ONlY got rid of the ASSEMBlY of the tracked tractor, MT's. They still build the unit's components or it passes through them. They do not wholesale it, but do the parts thing. AGCO got the 'foot' in the dealers door for "incremental or however you spell it business". A few dealers are doing quite well selling the pneumatic tired tractors with Sisu_Perkins (perkepiller -Cat owns Perkins) engines. Quite a few Iseki lil yeller fellows out there as well as combines and tillage items that come from Agco. Quite a few AgcoMF dealers out there PO'd 'bout this as well.

We heard how great Duetz engines were for irrigation(and they were) and how that would translate into a great combine engine. Now a Duetz powered machine is a liability on many dealers lots. AGCO has danced with Cat, Duetz, Perkins, Cummins and others all in a very short period of time. Each new change was proclaimed to be better than the past. The Gleaner is a great machine, but they are starting to skate on thin ice if they talk engine changes.